Dive Flags and Boat Diving

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Scuba Duffer

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Location
Oakville, Canada
I did a search for this info nut I have come up empty. 2 questions:

1. Does anyone know what the minimum size requirement for a dive flag flown from a boat in Ontario is?

2. What do people think about diving from a boat as a buddy team with no one onboard. Is there a law that prohibits this.

The reason I ask is that my wife and I want to do some local dives this summer in Georgian Bay and Lake Simcoe. We have both been certified for 1 year and are both AOW. Certainly nothing technical but we want to keep our skills current and practice our emergency drills. We have a 24ft Doral that we spend a few weeks on each summer.
 
.......I can't answer most of your question , but only add this.....we routinely dive and leave the boat unattended. We fly a dive flag on the boat and tow another with us......
 
There is no stipulated minimum size for the divers flag. Obviously there is a practical minimum size - there's no point having one if it's not visible. As a guideline, the most common size or standard size is 20" square.

It is illegal to leave a anchored boat unattended. This is an MOT regulation not a diving rule.
It wouldn't be the first time if you came back to the surface and found your boat missing - stolen, confiscated or drifted away.
 
Power Boat Flag chart

Boat Length Size of Club Signal, Marine flag
up to 18' 10x15" flag
19 to 24' 10x15" flag
25 to 30' 12x18" flag
31 to 36' 16x24" flag
37 to 48' 20x30" flag
49 to 60' 24x36" flag
61 to 72' 30x48" flag

I can't remember the source, I think it may be USCG...may be wrong
 
seahunter once bubbled...
It is illegal to leave a anchored boat unattended. This is an MOT regulation not a diving rule.
It wouldn't be the first time if you came back to the surface and found your boat missing - stolen, confiscated or drifted away.

Since when? I've been boating a long time and have never heard of any such law. I was also not aware that MOT (provincial gov't dept) had any authority over boats, especially on the great lakes. There's little difference between a mooring and an anchor, except the weight (moorings are generally much heavier than anchors) and the scope of the rode (anchors usually have a lot more scope) and there are lots of boats that spend most of the summer hanging on a mooring, including one that belongs to a friend who moors in front of his cottage near Beausoleil Island. We have anchored and swam or gone ashore numerous times and have been observered doing so by OPP patrols (including the one that stopped us to check that we had the required safety equipment aboard the dinghy) but no mention was ever made about leaving an anchored vessel unmanned.

On the other hand, leaving a boat unattended at anchor, is not always a good idea either. It does leave it open to loss or theft. Anchors can drag if not set correctly. Visitors may steal the entire boat, or just strip valuables such as the electronics and any wallets left aboard. And a 24 foot boat can be towed away with a 10 foot dinghy with an outboard.
 
In the legislation there is a difference between a mooring and anchoring. An unattended vessel in US waters is allowed to be salvaged.

From a safety perspective it makes sense to have someone on the boat while your in the water that can operate the boat and knows how to use a radio. Maybe Tom R can expand on this but I recall an incident a couple of years ago near Ducks where a father and son were doing a dive (with Mom on board) only to come back up the line to find their boat was gone. Mom did not know how to start the boat or even which wreck her husband and son were on when she was picked up by a freighter. It was hours before these two were plucked up by another boat.

From a customer's perspective on a charter boat it is frustrating to arrive at a dive site and find a zodiac tied up to a wreck's mooring line with no one in the boat. You have to sit there and wait for them to finish their dive whereas if there was someone on the boat then you could have them tie off to the larger boat.
 
Scuba Duffer once bubbled...
I did a search for this info nut I have come up empty. 2 questions:

1. Does anyone know what the minimum size requirement for a dive flag flown from a boat in Ontario is?


A rigid replica of the International Code flag "A" not less than 1 metre in height is the minimum size for an alpha flag under the collission regs which state:

Rule 27

Vessels not under Command or Restricted in their
Ability to Manoeuvre

(a) A vessel not under command shall exhibit:

(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line where they can best be seen,

(ii) two balls or similar shapes in a vertical line where they can best be seen,

(iii) when making way through the water, in addition to the lights prescribed in this paragraph, sidelights and a sternlight.

(b) A vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre, except a vessel engaged in mineclearance operations, shall exhibit:

(i) three all-round lights in a vertical line where they can best be seen. The highest and lowest of these lights shall be red and the middle light shall be white,

(ii) three shapes in a vertical line where they can best be seen. The highest and lowest of these shapes shall be balls and the middle one a diamond,

(iii) when making way through the water, a masthead light or lights, sidelights and a sternlight, in addition to the lights prescribed in subparagraph (i),

(iv) when at anchor, in addition to the lights or shapes prescribed in subparagraphs (i) and (ii), the light, lights or shape prescribed in Rule 30.

(c) A power-driven vessel engaged in a towing operation such as severely restricts the towing vessel and her tow in their ability to deviate from their course shall, in addition to the lights or shapes prescribed in Rule 24(a), exhibit the lights or shapes prescribed in subparagraphs (b)(i) and (ii) of this Rule.

(d) A vessel engaged in dredging or underwater operations, when restricted in her ability to manoeuvre, shall exhibit the lights and shapes prescribed in subparagraph (b)(i), (ii) and (iii) of this Rule and shall in addition, when an obstruction exists, exhibit:

(i) two all-round red lights or two balls in a vertical line to indicate the side on which the obstruction exists,

(ii) two all-round green lights or two diamonds in a vertical line to indicate the side on which another vessel may pass,

(iii) when at anchor the lights or shapes prescribed in this paragraph instead of the lights or shape prescribed in Rule 30.

(e) Whenever the size of a vessel engaged in diving operations makes it impracticable to exhibit all lights and shapes prescribed in paragraph (d) of this Rule, the following shall be exhibited:

(i) three all-round lights in a vertical line where they can best be seen. The highest and lowest of these lights shall be red and the middle light shall be white,

(ii) a rigid replica of the International Code flag "A" not less than 1 metre in height. Measures shall be taken to ensure its all-round visibility.

(f) A vessel engaged in mineclearance operations shall, in addition to the lights prescribed for a power-driven vessel in Rule 23 or to the lights or shape prescribed for a vessel at anchor in Rule 30 as appropriate, exhibit three all-round green lights or three balls. One of these lights or shapes shall be exhibited near the foremast head and one at each end of the fore yard. These lights or shapes indicate that it is dangerous for another vessel to approach within 1 000 metres of the mineclearance vessel.

(g) Vessels of less than 12 metres in length, except those engaged in diving operations, shall not be required to exhibit the lights and shapes prescribed in this Rule.

(h) The signals prescribed in this Rule are not signals of vessels in distress and requiring assistance. Such signals are contained in Annex IV.
 
And all we wanted to do was some recreational diving in very quiet remote spots around Georgian Bay.

Makes you realize that sometimes your better off just doing what you want to do. We have often left our boat unattended while we canoe to other areas - never had a problem - never lost my anchorage.

Thanks for the info!!
 

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