Dive Flags (split from Accidents & Incidents)

[PRL]

This is where it gets confusing for me. To my understanding a vessel flying an Alpha Flag
means that the vessel can not abandon the area it is in and all other vessels should stear
clear form the given area. A Diver Down Flag refers specificly to under-water operations.
If memory serves right (its been a long time since I looked into it) all vessels conducting
under-water operations are required to fly an Alpha Flag and if a diver goes beond a given distance (?) covered by the Alpha Flag, the diver is also required to display a Diver Down flag. All of this could be wrong and I'm hoping that maby someone that has knowledge of US federal regulations and Canadian Federal regulations could shine some more
light on the subject. Of course I'm talking about Great Lakes and Costal waters. Inland waters have different regulations

I took a safety course some years ago and remember talking about the Alpha Flag, but do not
remember the Diver Down flag.
I have a small boat and while diving I fly both: the Alpha Flag at the top and Diver Down flag below
the Alpha Flag. At night I have a vertical red, white, and red light

I wonder if it would be worth while to post bulitin boards at major ports and marinas with common signs like the No Wake, Alpha Flag, Diver Down, Distress, and so on. Maby DAN would be interested in promoting something like this.

I'm sure that half of the boaters on the Great Lakes don't know what a distress signal is, or how to signal for help.

 

[Rick Murchison]

The Alpha flag is an international signal that a vessel is restricted in its maneuverability. When divers are in the water then the divers cause the restricted maneuverability.
The "Diver Down" flag is *not* part of the international flag registry, and means different things in different places dependent on local law, but generally means "divers below; remain at a safe distance."
To see what it means (if anything!) where you are, you have to research local laws & regulations.
Rick

 

[Web Monkey]

In New York, as near as I can tell, there's a fine for not displaying the Diver Down flag, however, there's no penalty for flying your Jet Ski 10 feet away from the flag at 60 MPH.

I still like my auto-tracking water-cannon-dive-float idea.

Terry

The Alpha flag is an international signal that a vessel is restricted in its maneuverability. When divers are in the water then the divers cause the restricted maneuverability.
The "Diver Down" flag is *not* part of the international flag registry, and means different things in different places dependent on local law, but generally means "divers below; remain at a safe distance."
To see what it means (if anything!) where you are, you have to research local laws & regulations.
Rick

 

[Rick Murchison]

I should also add that the "Diver Down" red & white flag has requirements that apply to divers as well as boaters. On the one extreme are laws that say, essentially, "divers will use the flag all the time and they will stay well clear of anyplace that they may interfere with boat operations" to "boaters will stay xxx feet from the flag or be jailed and fined" - and every imaginable combination in between.
The "norm" is that boaters will remain about 100' from a diver down flag, divers will remain within 100' of the flag when they surface and within about 200' of the flag underwater, and that divers may not dive in places where the presence of the flag will restrict boaters' access to channels.
Again, for specifics you need to check local laws & regs.
Rick

 

[Rick Murchison]

In New York, as near as I can tell, there's a fine for not displaying the Diver Down flag, however, there's no penalty for flying your Jet Ski 10 feet away from the flag at 60 MPH.

A quick search found:
"In New York State, Section 45, 1a of the State Navigation Law states that unless you are the vessel that is involved in diving operations, boats must stay at least 100' away from the flag."
Don't know about the whole reg...
Rick

 

[Don Burke]

This is where it gets confusing for me. To my understanding a vessel flying an Alpha Flag
means that the vessel can not abandon the area it is in and all other vessels should stear
clear form the given area. A Diver Down Flag refers specificly to under-water operations.
If memory serves right (its been a long time since I looked into it) all vessels conducting
under-water operations are required to fly an Alpha Flag and if a diver goes beond a given distance (?) covered by the Alpha Flag, the diver is also required to display a Diver Down flag. All of this could be wrong and I'm hoping that maby someone that has knowledge of US federal regulations and Canadian Federal regulations could shine some more
light on the subject. Of course I'm talking about Great Lakes and Costal waters. Inland waters have different regulations

I took a safety course some years ago and remember talking about the Alpha Flag, but do not
remember the Diver Down flag.
I have a small boat and while diving I fly both: the Alpha Flag at the top and Diver Down flag below
the Alpha Flag. At night I have a vertical red, white, and red light

I wonder if it would be worth while to post bulitin boards at major ports and marinas with common signs like the No Wake, Alpha Flag, Diver Down, Distress, and so on. Maby DAN would be interested in promoting something like this.

I'm sure that half of the boaters on the Great Lakes don't know what a distress signal is, or how to signal for help.

The feds do not appear to recognize the diver down flag at all. Perhaps some national parks have rules about it. I have not found them.

The dive flag rules are state laws or regulations and sometimes city ordnances. They are all over the place on specific distances. Here in Virginia, it is seventy-five feet.

The rules actually state a small craft is to display a rigid replica of the alfa flag not less than one meter in height when engaged in diving operations.

 

[diveh3]

A quick search found:
"In New York State, Section 45, 1a of the State Navigation Law states that unless you are the vessel that is involved in diving operations, boats must stay at least 100' away from the flag."
Don't know about the whole reg...
Rick

an example of 100'

 

[String]

Im sure there was a thread on this a few weeks ago ?

As mentioned the red/white stripey flag thing isnt part of the international flag registry and quite literally is meaningless in a lot of countries so boat skippers have no obligation what so ever to do anything about it.
If you want to use internationally recognised symbols then fly an A-flag - that does have some legal standing (and a skipper should know what it means whereas they arent with the padi flag or whatever its called).

FWIW i recall the other thread mentioning different US states had different rules regarding flags and actions so its far from clear cut there.

 

[rjchandler]

an example of 100'

Don't know that you can go diving in the middle of a shipping channel and bring all traffic to a stop with a diver down flag

 

[Don Burke]

Don't know that you can go diving in the middle of a shipping channel and bring all traffic to a stop with a diver down flag

You will get a substantial penalty for obstructing the channel.