Dive shops and training: the disconnect with reality

[gcbryan]

I agree regarding Matt and the others at NWSD. I also have good personal relationships with the shop very near my house but over the years have experienced some of the things I've written about.

Some of what I'm talking about is the nature of the industry (in general and not specific in every case). It's still good to keep newer divers aware of these issues and it sounds like many posters have had similar issues as well.

In many cases it's employees doing their best with owners who frustrate the employees as well as the customers. It's a tough business and I have a grudging respect for anyone who can keep a scuba business running for year after year.

I see no problem with being critical on a discussion board even though some are taking this as too much about me or are over interpreting my attitude towards the shops I frequent. I have good working relationships with any store I frequent or I wouldn't go there.

Some people don't appreciate criticism regardless of the subject. I'm not one of them. I like to see all sides discussed on any subject. It keeps things honest.

 

[idocsteve]

I then started using the velcro straps built into the BC and then fine turned things with putting hoses through the arm straps. Later was the retractor stage but I immediately saw that even fully retracted my gear was hanging just as much if not more than before the retractors.

You speak about retractors as a "phase" which is an insult to any diver who uses them on a regular basis.

You also provide false logic to support your statement, because you say that "gear on a retractor hangs just as much if not more than alternate methods."

You fail to realize there are other scenarios where using a retractor can be preferrable to a clip, such as in my configuration.

My dive light is on a lockable retractor. I use the light intermittently throughout a dive (unless of course it's an night dive). So rather than clipping and unclipping a dozen times or more, I simply...let go of the light...and when I want to pick it up again I make a sweep, and it's right there. The retractor keeps the light fully retracted without being locked unless I'm out of the water. If I don't intend to use the light on a dive, or I don't plan on using it for several minutes, then it's inside my BC pocket, which is more streamlined and "doesn't hang" as it would if it was on a clip.

My integrated dive slate and compass is neatly tucked away in my BC pocket as well. When and if I need to use it (rarely), I reach into my pocket and pull it out...and it's on a retractor too. So if I choose to do so, I can either tuck it back in the pocket or simply let go. If it was on a clip, I'd have to clip/unclip and when it is not in use it would be...hanging.

The third retractor on my gear keeps my BC vent hose close to my chest so it doesn't hang. Velcro attachment is not possible with my BCD. I challenge you to provide a better configuration for a BCD vent hose. Sure you could clip/unclip the BCD vent hose every time you are going to use it, but are you going to tell me that's less effort then simply...lifting the vent hose and then letting it go to retract neatly back against the BCD?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

You speak about retractors as a "phase" which is an insult to any diver who uses them on a regular basis.

Actually, it was me who used the term "phase" ... which for me it was. I also went through a console phase ... which is when I found the retractor useful.

If it works for you, don't worry about what other people think. Everyone's going to have their own preferences, and should be free to refer to their own experiences as they see fit.

If you find that insulting, I suggest that it's more your problem than mine ... because I said nothing about how YOU use the gear ... I spoke strictly as to how effective I found it to be ... which is simply to say I found a better, less expensive solution.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[idocsteve]

Actually, it was me who used the term "phase" ... which for me it was. I also went through a console phase ... which is when I found the retractor useful.

If it works for you, don't worry about what other people think. Everyone's going to have their own preferences, and should be free to refer to their own experiences as they see fit.

If you find that insulting, I suggest that it's more your problem than mine ... because I said nothing about how YOU use the gear ... I spoke strictly as to how effective I found it to be ... which is simply to say I found a better, less expensive solution.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I really don't find it insulting as much as I find it to be closeminded, presumptive, and illogical thinking, and when I read posts like yours I shake my head because it's just so typical of the rather thickheaded mindset of so many I come across on the internet and in real life.

When it comes to diving in particular, I guess I feel sorry for "experienced divers" like you who refuse to consider other options because they think of them as a "phase" that is below their level of experience.

You could have your gear neatly stowed in your BCD pocket and yet you swim around like a Christmas tree, but hey, whatever works for you.

 

[dbulmer]

The irony of the last post had me in fits of laughter -

idocsteve - chill mate chill

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I really don't find it insulting as much as I find it to be closeminded, presumptive, and illogical thinking, and when I read posts like yours I shake my head because it's just so typical of the rather thickheaded mindset of so many I come across on the internet and in real life.

Interesting ... trying something for a while, then finding something that works better is "closed minded, presumptive, and illogical thinking"?

I suppose you believe that everyone should be using retractors because you do?

When it comes to diving in particular, I guess I feel sorry for "experienced divers" like you who refuse to consider other options because they think of them as a "phase" that is below their level of experience.

I not only considered the other option ... I actually used it. In fact, I used it for more dives than you have done so far in your lifetime, if your profile is correct. I then found an alternative that worked better for me.

How is that refusing to consider it?

You could have your gear neatly stowed in your BCD pocket and yet you swim around like a Christmas tree, but hey, whatever works for you.

I don't have BCD pockets ... don't need them. Don't need retractors either. I have found more effective solutions. But hey, whatever works for you.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[pedo]

I really don't find it insulting as much as I find it to be closeminded, presumptive, and illogical thinking, and when I read posts like yours I shake my head because it's just so typical of the rather thickheaded mindset of so many I come across on the internet and in real life.

When it comes to diving in particular, I guess I feel sorry for "experienced divers" like you who refuse to consider other options because they think of them as a "phase" that is below their level of experience.

You could have your gear neatly stowed in your BCD pocket and yet you swim around like a Christmas tree, but hey, whatever works for you.

I use a retractor on my light and spg. They have worked just fine for 10 years. I actually need to move the spg away for these old eyed to read it.

 

[TSandM]

You could have your gear neatly stowed in your BCD pocket and yet you swim around like a Christmas tree, but hey, whatever works for you.

This is enormously amusing. I really wish I could find a photograph of Bob in the water, but I can't put my finger on one right at the moment. Bob, as many of us, subscribes to a type of diving that emphasizes streamlining and a clean, uncluttered gear configuration. You won't EVER find him looking like a Christmas tree (except if somebody manages to clip a chicken onto him ).

A lot of us don't like retractors because 1) they're relatively expensive; 2) they can and do jam, gum up or break; 3) with the total length of the two parts and the clip, stuff is still hanging a long way below you; and 4) there's a simpler, more elegant and less expensive solution. But a retractor sure as heck beats letting the stuff hang loose, and it does have the advantage that pulling a console up to look at it with a retractor doesn't really task load students or new divers.

Come to think of it, a lot of us don't like big consoles, either . . .

 

[idocsteve]

Interesting ... trying something for a while, then finding something that works better is "closed minded, presumptive, and illogical thinking"?

I suppose you believe that everyone should be using retractors because you do?

Nope, to each his own. However you'll never hear me say that divers who don't use retractors are "going through a phase".

I'll also never say that divers who clip stuff all over their rig should be referred to as "Christmas Tree Divers".

This is enormously amusing. I really wish I could find a photograph of Bob in the water, but I can't put my finger on one right at the moment. Bob, as many of us, subscribes to a type of diving that emphasizes streamlining and a clean, uncluttered gear configuration. You won't EVER find him looking like a Christmas tree (except if somebody manages to clip a chicken onto him ).

Here's some footage of NWGratefulDiver during a recent dive.

I'll let the video speak for itself.

Spoiler

 

[gcbryan]

I really don't find it insulting as much as I find it to be closeminded, presumptive, and illogical thinking, and when I read posts like yours I shake my head because it's just so typical of the rather thickheaded mindset of so many I come across on the internet and in real life.

Priceless!

...
You could have your gear neatly stowed in your BCD pocket and yet you swim around like a Christmas tree, but hey, whatever works for you.

You really are your own worst enemy.

And Bob, would you please stop swimming around like a Christmas tree?