Divemaster fitness requirements?

[TMHeimer]

But doff and don is not the purpose of the skill, as you've cited above. The added stress of exchanging the gear is important to creating "an unusual circumstance."

---------- Post added May 6th, 2015 at 11:05 PM ----------



Do keep in mind that the diver with no reg needs to be "blowing bubbles" the whole time.

The only thing my gear exchange buddy and I discussed prior to the exercise was that the person without the reg chose the next piece of gear and set the pace. The main focus of the person WITH the reg in their mouth is to pay attention to the buddy WITHOUT the reg and be ready to hand it back upon request. And also... don't wait until you're desperate for a breath before requesting it back.

Bubbles: I perhaps should've mentioned it--figured it was obvious to any DMC. That's why I said "without needing a breath" rather than "on one breath" or "while holding a breath".

I think we did about the same as you guys in that the guy without the reg dictated things. We did have a planned order of what to switch, and hoped it would go fine that way, which it did. As it's not to my knowledge a timed exercise (or wasn't for us back then), I'm still unclear on how it is graded 1-5 (as I mentioned I thought back then that it was just pass-fail, or at least I think that's what she said--it was 6 years ago). So what would be the criteria for you as instructor in grading this-- smoothness? amount of relaxed movement vs. any anxiety? It would be tough to grade each person individually when it may be only one of the two that is uncomfortable with the process. Kind of like a duet on American Idol that's out of tune--who loses points?

 

[RJP]

So I just did my second training session in the pool on my long journey to dm stardom. Lol. Well ok I went swimming.

Did the 400 in 9.10 tonight doing breast stroke. So I think even with no training I think I could go all out and maybe get the 8.40.

I compared myself to the other lane swimmers. My 9.10 pace is about 34 seconds a length. A hardcore triathlon guy was doing 25 second lengths. I would say my 34 second pace was in the top 3rd of the 20 or so people swimming tonight. But I think most were doing more than 16 lengths.

So so this is my long winded way of saying I think any slightly above average swimmer should easily get a 4 with a little practice. A 5 is a very fast pace, even triathlon man would be close at the pace he was doing tonight. But as I'm unlikely to be doing dm for a while yet I'm going to try and get as close as I can to that 6.30 time.
I think I'd need some stroke lessons to switch to front crawl for that though. But I need better fitness to get my breathing right before that switch I think.

Not for nothing, but "pace" in swimming parlance is typically quoted in time per 100yd/meter distance. So a 9:10 time for 400m is a 2:18 pace. An 8:40 time would be a 2:10 pace.

Bad Request

At 25sec lengths your "hardcore" triathlete guy is doing a 1:40 pace. That puts him squarely at the bottom of the MOP (middle of the pack) of tri-swimmers

A real hardcore triathlete guy should probably have a min T-Pace (threshold pace) in the 1:30 range over say 1,000m in a 25m pool.

Here's a rule of thumb for FOP/MOP/BOP tri swimming times (front, middle, back of pack... top 25%, middle 50%, bottom 25%)

FOP: Faster than 1:25/100yd (1:33/100m)
MOP: Between 1:25/100yd and 1:40/100yd (1:33/100m - 150/100m)
BOP: Slower than 1:40/100yd (1:50/100m)

Though as most recreational swimmers will tell you the cutoff time for FOP is the guy who finishes right before you and BOP is the guy that finishes right after you.



---------- Post added May 7th, 2015 at 08:07 AM ----------

I'm still unclear on how it is graded 1-5 (as I mentioned I thought back then that it was just pass-fail, or at least I think that's what she said--it was 6 years ago). So what would be the criteria for you as instructor in grading this-- smoothness? amount of relaxed movement vs. any anxiety? It would be tough to grade each person individually when it may be only one of the two that is uncomfortable with the process. Kind of like a duet on American Idol that's out of tune--who loses points?

Check the PADI Instructor Manual... all shall be revealed!

5 POINTS: Task performed in a well-thought-out, efficient and purposeful manner with no sign of problems; very low anxiety level. Looks routine and appears easy.

4 POINTS: Task performed competently with a relatively low anxiety level. Challenges encountered were easily and efficiently handled.

3 POINTS: Complete exchange occurred without surfacing. However, numerous challenges were encountered that delayed the speed and efficiency of the performance. This score is also appropriate for a diver overly dependent on another.

2 POINTS: Significant problems demonstrated, and exchange completed only after one or both team members surfaced once.

1 POINT: Inability to complete the exchange; or exchange completed with one or both divers surfacing more than once.

 

[crunchiespg]

Not for nothing, but "pace" in swimming parlance is typically quoted in time per 100yd/meter distance. So a 9:10 time for 400m is a 2:18 pace. An 8:40 time would be a 2:10 pace.

Bad Request

At 25sec lengths your "hardcore" triathlete guy is doing a 1:40 pace. That puts him squarely at the bottom of the MOP (middle of the pack) of tri-swimmers

A real hardcore triathlete guy should probably have a min T-Pace (threshold pace) in the 1:30 range over say 1,000m in a 25m pool.

Here's a rule of thumb for FOP/MOP/BOP tri swimming times (front, middle, back of pack... top 25%, middle 50%, bottom 25%)

FOP: Faster than 1:25/100yd (1:33/100m)
MOP: Between 1:25/100yd and 1:40/100yd (1:33/100m - 150/100m)
BOP: Slower than 1:40/100yd (1:50/100m)

Though as most recreational swimmers will tell you the cutoff time for FOP is the guy who finishes right before you and BOP is the guy that finishes right after you.

Thank you. Interesting reading.
The tri guy like I said didn't seem to be trying too hard. He was just plowing away for at least an hour solid doing various strokes and 25 was the slowest I saw him go. I'm sure he could of gone a lot faster.
But my main point was the DM standard isn't some unobtainable dream. Even I intend to try and train for a sub 6.30 time. I don't know if I'll manage it. But seeing as I can pretty much hit the next standard with no training then it gives me something to aim for.

 

[RJP]

Even I intend to try and train for a sub 6.30 time. I don't know if I'll manage it. But seeing as I can pretty much hit the next standard with no training then it gives me something to aim for.

Swimming Technique: Animations & Articles From Experts Swim Smooth

 

[TMHeimer]

Ray, Thanks for the IM scoring stuff. Some of it is similar to the grading of the 20 skills to demo level of course. It reads like both people probably get the same grade? I suppose an instructor could discern which of the two had this or that problem and grade separately, but I would imagine at times that may be difficult. Have you taught a DM course yet?--how would you work this?
When I did the skill I can't see how either of us could've gotten any lower than a 5 (she didn't tell us how we all did point wise, but said us two were great). Perhaps in the "old"DM course it was pass-fail?

After I completed it with that person, a month later our instructor asked me to buddy up with another, who for some reason hadn't done this task yet (she was from another class). She was much smaller than me, and a bit on the anxious side, so it didn't go quite as smoothly this time. Took longer as well. If I were being graded this second time I always wondered if my score would've been lower.

 

[Frosty]

Well Im swimming lenths of a 50m pool when theres no center island and 25 when the islands in place. Definitely for me the 15 turns vs 7 turns makes a solid minutes difference to my lap times.
Hey im not arguing with the standards guys --they is what they is. But given scuba/snorkel its all about leg strength and swimming is about breath control and upper body predominantly I have to say Im struggling with the relevance of the swim.
One question is --why isn't there a scuba equipped fitness requirement.--ie underwater swimming covering a set distance?
Seems to me that would be more relevant than swimming.
-Grouchy today with aching shoulder and chest muscles. Did about 1 mile swimming part of which was a couple of 200m/200 yard sprints.
the 200m done in 5 minutes 20

 

[RJP]

Well Im swimming lenths of a 50m pool when theres no center island and 25 when the islands in place. Definitely for me the 15 turns vs 7 turns makes a solid minutes difference to my lap times.
Hey im not arguing with the standards guys --they is what they is. But given scuba/snorkel its all about leg strength and swimming is about breath control and upper body predominantly I have to say Im struggling with the relevance of the swim.
One question is --why isn't there a scuba equipped fitness requirement.--ie underwater swimming covering a set distance?
Seems to me that would be more relevant than swimming.
-Grouchy today with aching shoulder and chest muscles. Did about 1 mile swimming part of which was a couple of 200m/200 yard sprints.
the 200m done in 5 minutes 20

are you still swimming breast stroke?

 

[Frosty]

are you still swimming breast stroke?

breast stoke then some back stroke. and about 400m/yards with training fins.

 

[RJP]

Switch to freestyle and get on with it... seriously.

 

[Frosty]

im sorry Ive discoved Im not the best at multitasking.
NOT danged breaststroke.Freestyle swimming.
Did just over a mile today mostly freestyle but a good 500yards of snorkling.
Crew packs here so lots and lots of reading