Diver death in FL- how can I be safer diver?

[Walter]

Susan,

You and Lydia can use my spare room for a couple of weeks, that way the commute won't be so bad.

Mike,

"do you think that additional experience under supervision immediately following OW isn't good?"

Exactly! Keeping students as students instead of allowing them to develop on their own as divers creates a dependency on having an instructor or DM to take care of them. Once they are certified, it's time to cut the apron strings.

"Or...is it the name of the course (AOW) you object to?"

I really don't care what it's called. In fact, I believe PADI did rename the course to Adventures in Diving.

Advanced Plus was an excellent course. It was better than the NAUI Advanced course (IMHO) and almost as good as Silver Advanced (again IMHO). They all fall short of LA County's Advanced program (IMHO).

The reason no one took the Advanced Plus course is because no one sold it. People go to a shop (or independent instructor) and they sign up for the Advanced class that is being offered. People who take an Advanced class are interested in improving their skills and learning more about diving. These are folks who will look for the best class, not the cheapest.

"Put the two together and you have the advanced OW course. The only thing I don't like about it is the name. Why will you not teach this course?"

I refuse to teach the course because it is a useless course. I refuse to short change my students. You obviously disagree with my opinion on the AOW class, so keep teaching it. I've never taught it and I never will.

"Some like patches and have fun getting them. Why shouldn't they?"

No reason at all. I have a few patches myself. I'd be hard pressed to find them, but I have them.

"I think the logic here is flawed you guys seem to be saying that since there should be 10 dives we shouldn't do the five that are in the class."

I believe you missed the point. Academics should be included. Advanced Plus was an excellent example of this. The other point is 10 dives should be included, so I include them. At the successful completion of the academics and those 10 dives, I issue the Silver Advanced card.

"I think you guys can't get past the name."

Call it OWII if you want or Adventures in Diving or Advanced Open Water or God's Gift to Diving. If the content isn't beefed up I can not see it serves a useful purpose.

 

[kwesler]

I work in the theatre, which is about as benign as an occupation can get, yet one of our people (a stagehand) was severely injured when she fell through a hatch 65'. She was extremely experienced and a top notch person (she is just fine now).

For a split second, she forgot to respect the dangers inherent in what she does.

PLEASE...this is a safe sport if you prepare-from training to day of dive, execute with concentration, and never stop learning.

The penalty for failure can be serious.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Walter,
Well...I respect (and I think understand) your opinion but disagree. I do agree that instructors helped kill the AOW +. I think AOW does not a master make but I think it is appropriate for the goals of the course. People have fun and when they get through my advanced course they are better divers than when they started and that is the purpose. In fact it is a busy course. Students are challanged and most that come to me, especially from other instructors OW courses (regardless of the number of dives they have) require remediation in OW skills.

For those reading this and especially for the ones who are not envolved in dive training: I often disagree with walter. However I do not question his intentions and I'm sure he is a fine instructor. I think there is room for more than one opinion and method. The ones I am dead set against are the ones who do not have the students interests in mind and I see lots of them.

Mike

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

Mike F.

Not that this pertains to the subject but I gave the VERY LAST Advanced Plus certification PADI ever gave out. Gave it to my Divemaster who went AWOL this week.

PCM

 

[Walter]

Mike,

"The ones I am dead set against are the ones who do not have the students interests in mind and I see lots of them."

See? We do agree!

I merely think we should teach a better advanced class (of what ever name) than most of us do. Just because there's no longer an Advanced Plus card doesn't mean it can't be taught. If YMCA dropped the Silver Advanced class, I'd continue to teach it & award the AOW card upon completion. A PADI instructor could do the same with Advanced Plus/AOW if he was interested. I think it would be an asset.

 

[CuriousMe]

As someone who has recently completed PADI"s AOW (where A means whatever you want <grin>)....I would have loved to have taken the Advanced Plus class described....

But truly, I've always been a little weird....I actually look at the little map on the back of hotel room door to let you know where the fire exit is, I've also been known to read the safety pamphlet in the seat pocket of my airlplane seat and count how many seats I am to my emergency exit.

I fully intend to take Rescue, but want to wait till I'm on vacation and not in the caribbean. I've been researching shops/instructors to take it in the Atlanta area...most shops in the area do it at Lake Lanier, which from what I've been told has mimimal visability on the best of days <grin>.....sounds perfect for a Rescue class

 

[Walter]

I know someone in the Atlanta area who teaches an excellent rescue class. Lanier isn't all that bad.

 

[otter-cat]

What do you think of the value of the program as a part of regular OW certification? Same complete OW course, with the same certification dives and skills, and then several dives introducing a few additional skills appropriate to the different types of dives that they do? (Maybe it could be called Open Water Plus, although it might be even better if it was a part of all OW courses.)

I think that certainly the academics included with the AOW+ & Silver Advanced courses would be desirable, too, but I also think that those would be more readily appreciated and applied by divers who had a little more experience than "just out of OW" divers do. However, those newly OW certified divers really could use a few more supervised dives as they try some new things underwater.

What do you think?

otter-cat

 

[Walter]

Otter,

What you are describing is OWII. I sometimes give that card instead of OW depending on the scheduling and desires of my students. At that point (after OW or OWII) I send them off to make about 25 additional dives on their own.

 

[Zept]

Originally posted by CuriousMe
I fully intend to take Rescue, but want to wait till I'm on vacation and not in the caribbean.

Only you could put a 'not' in that sentence!

Originally posted by Otter-cat
However, those newly OW certified divers really could use a few more supervised dives as they try some new things underwater.

I think there's a difference between supervised dives and AOW. After our OW, my buddy and I did several dives in the company of a divemaster. It gave us a chance to improve our buoyancy control, buddy skills, confidence and so on. When we got to AOW, we didn't have to think about staying together or staying off the bottom, we just did those things automatically.

If a new diver needs supervision, I don't think they're ready for deep dives or night dives, and I'd question the value of giving them additional tasks... they need to practise the basic stuff.

Zept