Diver death in FL- how can I be safer diver?

[otter-cat]

I never heard of OWII certification. Sounds like a good program to me. So does PADI OW + PADI AOW = OWII?

Is OWII a YMCA cert?

otter-cat

 

[otter-cat]

Zept,

I think that getting supervised dives with a DM right after becoming certified is a great idea. But if students prefer to do those supervised dives with an instructor, how could that be bad?

I think that most of us (maybe) agree that the additional experience beyond the OWII/Regular "AOW" course, as well as additional academics and additional skill development beyond the current AOW course offerings are all really good things. But I also believe that the actual function that AOW does provide (i.e. a few more dives under instructor supervision) is something that students can benefit from right out of OW cert. A DM is fine, too, but what's wrong with instructors offering a package of dives with additional instruction to students?

otter-cat

 

[Walter]

OWII is a certification that lies between OW and Advanced. Other agencies used to offer it. I don't believe PADI has it anymore. If my students make additional dives after the 4 SCUBA & 1 skin required for OW, I can issue OWII instead.

 

[Zept]

Originally posted by otter-cat
But if students prefer to do those supervised dives with an instructor, how could that be bad?

If the students are comfortable and confident (and competent!), it isn't bad at all. I don't have a problem with people going straight from OW to AOW, if that's what's right for them. It wouldn't have been right for me... I needed to do some regular dives to build up my confidence, without the challenges of depth or darkness or following a compass.

It seems a shame to treat AOW as a 'catch up' course for less confident divers -- it ought to be about learning new things.

I don't think we really disagree -- we both think getting more experience and getting more training are good things. We're just coming at this from different perspectives.

Zept

 

[neil]

IMO, the problem with AOW courses is that many instructors don't challenge students at the level they have attained. 10 dives or 100, they get the same course. Mike F and Walter sound like they tailor the content to different levels, but from what I have seen, it's not the norm. Also, I see instructors not directly involved with the students. Not to offend, but if you are on the boat while your students are UW running patterns or logging critters, you are a bit of a hack, IMHO.

I became a PADI instructor after the Advanced Plus was gone, but it sounded a lot like the NAUI Master Scuba Diver course that I teach now. 8 dives minimum and a bunch of academics. Very satisfying to teach.

Neil

 

[Padipro]

My biggest concern with waiting to take the AOW and Rescue class is that people have a tendancy to do things they are not trained to do, ie diving deep or after dark or trying to navigate. I know that shortly after completing my OW class I was out with friends doing a dive to 120 feet. I wasn't pressured into going, I wanted to go, but I had no experience in deep diving and neither of my buddies had much more then I did. At around 80 feet one of the other guys ran out of air because his SPG wasn't working and non of us had any rescue experience other then what we were taught in the OW class. Thank God no one got hurt and we all made it back alive thanks to buddy breathing. It was a stupid thing us to be doing a dive that deep without any experience or supervision but we did it anyway. I think it's much better to have the training and supervision the first time any of us try something new and potentially dangerious. Non of you would suggest that a person looking to become a cave diver gain experience by venturing into a cave without the proper training and supervision, or that a 16 year old (in the US) gain experience driving by jumping behind the wheel of a car without someone sitting in the right seat to help them, would you? Why in God's name would you suggest that a new diver gain experience in more advanced forms of diving without the training and supervision of a professional experienced in the types of diving this person seeks to do?

Scott

 

[Walter]

"Why in God's name would you suggest that a new diver gain experience in more advanced forms of diving without the training and supervision of a professional experienced in the types of diving this person seeks to do?"

I didn't see anyone suggest that. Always dive within your training and experience level. When you complete OW you are qualified to dive to 60 ft, not 120. Part of every class is the warning not to exceed your training level.

 

[socaldiver]

Sorry it took so long to get back into the discussion. I also have no problems with Patches, I do have a problem with someone getting a "C" card that says they are "advanced" when in reality they MAY not be.

OWII or something along that line would be more appropriate IMHO.

Redesign the Advanced class and make it tougher. I would suggest things like Photography, Naturalist and some of the other "specialties" be eliminated from the advance course. Boat, Deep, Night, Drift, some CPR, some Rescue, Navigation, Search and Recovery would be what I would put in an Advanced class. Classroom academics plus a couple of dives in each category would be a better indicator for an advanced diver. I might also add that I feel another pool swim of a longer length than required by OW be performed.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Walter]

socaldiver,

"I feel another pool swim of a longer length than required by OW be performed."

We require 300 yds. What do you think we should require for advanced?

 

[chris_b]

Originally posted by Walter
We require 300 yds. What do you think we should require for advanced?

Walter, does that have a time limit? For my NAUI OW class I think the requirement was 200 yards in under 8 minutes (with mask, fins, snorkel). I'm neither a triathlete nor a couch potato but that was a bit of a workout for me, I think I took almost seven minutes

I don't know that I could go a lot faster just with more experience in the water!

Chris