Diver missing on Spiegel Grove - Key Largo Florida

[boulderjohn]

I dived the Spiegel Grove last February. We were told there would be no penetration. I have the necessary certifications and equipment to do penetrations on a wreck like that. However, the operator said "no penetrations," and that is the end of the story. I enjoyed a dive over the wreck. Yes, I would have liked to do a penetration, but those were not the rules. On another dive on another day I will penetrate that wreck, but not on that day.

If I do a dive there with penetration and the proper equipment, I will do so from a boat that is prepared for it and knows my plans.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Given the potential for getting into strong currents and being forced into an open water drifting ascent I would not dive the spiegel if they did not allow SMBs and hence reels.

Of course. Just thinking "out loud."

 

[sterlunk]

I was on the trip. The DM said more than once there was to be no penetration and no deco. The missing diver and his buddy did not want a guide. They were both equipped with ponies, reels, lights etc. Both had been on/in the wreck numerous times previously and both were very experienced divers. The accident happened on the second dive of a double dip to the wreck. The two were returning from the engine room on their way out when they became separated. Conditions outside the wreck were favorable with almost no current and good viz. A very sad and sobering end to what would have been a good day.

 

[DiverGirl1972]

A quote from one of the news stories "Scuba-Do’s dive master on the trip, Kimberly Chapman, told a Monroe County Sheriff’s deputy that the passengers were briefed before entering the water that there would be no penetration of the Spiegel Grover or “decompression diving” during this trip. In the sheriff’s office report, Chapman stated that Dragojevich and Dorminy told her that they were entering the engine room on the Siegel Grove with guide reels."

I'm not blaming the op, but I think the op was aware of what they were going to do even though they gave instructions to the contrary in the dive briefing.


Read more here: Missing diver found dead in the wreck of the USS Spiegel Grove in the Keys - Florida Keys - MiamiHerald.com

 

[DandyDon]

I was on the trip. The DM said more than once there was to be no penetration and no deco. The missing diver and his buddy did not want a guide. They were both equipped with ponies, reels, lights etc. Both had been on/in the wreck numerous times previously and both were very experienced divers. The accident happened on the second dive of a double dip to the wreck. The two were returning from the engine room on their way out when they became separated. Conditions outside the wreck were favorable with almost no current and good viz. A very sad and sobering end to what would have been a good day.

Sucks to have been there for that. Welcome to SB.

 

[sharpenu]

My opinion here, having known Jim since 1994 and Joe since 2011, is that sometimes things go wrong. Both of these guys were well trained with plenty of experience, and from what sterlunk said, were properly equipped and conditions were favorable. What happened here, as with many dive accidents, was likely a cascading set of events that were not that serious on their own. However, when a series of seemingly insignificant problems comes together in a certain way, they add up to catastrophe.

In this case, we will likely find that there were some things that the divers overlooked, some things that were beyond their control, and still other things that were within their control that no one would normally think were problems that we need to worry about. Was there equipment failure? Narcosis? A broken line? Human error?

As divers, we accept that there is a certain amount of risk in the sport, and while we make every attempt to minimize that risk, it is still there, and is still something more than zero. If we are to take anything from this, we should do as we always do: Look at what happened, and modify our behavior and equipment to reduce the chance of this sort of thing happening to us.

It sounds to me like the dive operator knew the divers were penetrating the wreck, and the briefing telling them not to was delivered to satisfy the insurance company and the attorneys, but delivered with a wink and a nudge.

 

[sterlunk]

I'm pretty sure the operator knew what the two were planning on but I did not hear them discussing any plans. The irony here is Scuba-Do puts a guide in the water unlike many of the other operators. My first trip to this wreck was with Ocean Divers. They just pair or triple you up (if you're without a buddy) and send you over. The DMs stay on board unless you pay extra for an in-water guide but that isn't clear until you're on board. I was fortunate the first time to have been paired with a buddy who had been there before. Because I'm frequently a single I want experienced and local guides. My buddy on this trip was one of the staff who went out for pleasure. The 'working' DM guided two others who were on the trip. Scuba-Do is a good operator and I'd go with them again without hesitation.

Knowing someone's in trouble and being able to do absolutely nothing to help them just sucks. We looked at the surface hoping for a miracle for a long time knowing there was no real hope. I'd just met Joe but his passing will affect me for as long as I live.

Sterling

 

[JamesK]

My opinion here, having known Jim since 1994 and Joe since 2011, is that sometimes things go wrong. Both of these guys were well trained with plenty of experience, and from what sterlunk said, were properly equipped and conditions were favorable. What happened here, as with many dive accidents, was likely a cascading set of events that were not that serious on their own. However, when a series of seemingly insignificant problems comes together in a certain way, they add up to catastrophe.

In this case, we will likely find that there were some things that the divers overlooked, some things that were beyond their control, and still other things that were within their control that no one would normally think were problems that we need to worry about. Was there equipment failure? Narcosis? A broken line? Human error?

As divers, we accept that there is a certain amount of risk in the sport, and while we make every attempt to minimize that risk, it is still there, and is still something more than zero. If we are to take anything from this, we should do as we always do: Look at what happened, and modify our behavior and equipment to reduce the chance of this sort of thing happening to us.

It sounds to me like the dive operator knew the divers were penetrating the wreck, and the briefing telling them not to was delivered to satisfy the insurance company and the attorneys, but delivered with a wink and a nudge.

Were they sufficiently trained? What overhead training did they have? Were they sufficiently equipped? Is AL80's and a pony truly sufficient? What were their gasses and gas management plans? Were they diving redundant gas sources? How many lights did each of them have? What was in their pony bottles?

From what I have heard and seen and read from others who were both there and knew them, these are the questions that I have.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[DevonDiver]

Most relevant aspects of the story highlighted:

Man dies while diving Spiegel Grove wreck

BY ADAM LINHARDT Citizen Staff
alinhardt@keysnews.com
The search ended Friday for a longtime Lake County paramedic and diver who vanished at the Spiegel Grove artificial reef Thursday.
Crews recovered the body of Joseph Dragojevich, 43, from inside the wreck at 1:30 p.m. Friday, according to the Monroe County Sheriff's Office.
The 14-year veteran and captain with Lake County Emergency Medical Services near Orlando, went missing about 4:15 p.m. Thursday while diving with a friend, according to the Sheriff's Office.
An autopsy will be conducted to determine cause of death.
"He is an experienced diver and everyone knows him as a very strong diver and a very fit man," said Lake County Emergency Medical Services Human Resources Manager Lourdes Lebron. "He is a very optimistic person who has a passion to save lives. He did it with pride and compassion and instilled that in his employees."
Dragojevich and his friend, James Dorminy, 51, of Kissimmee, were diving with six other divers with the Scuba-Do Dive Co., 102670 Overseas Highway.
Both were doing a penetration dive on the wreck without a guide as the other divers reportedly did not intend to enter the 510-foot Navy ship that was intentionally sunk in 2002, according to the Sheriff's Office.
Dorminy surfaced after losing sight of Dragojevich and searching unsuccessfully for him in the ship.
Dorminy told Sheriff's Office dive team Sgt. Mark Coleman they attached a reel line when they entered so they would be able to find their way out, reports say.
They explored several levels of the ship before beginning their exit, following the line. Dorminy said he was in the lead and Dragojevich was reeling in the line behind him. Dorminy last saw Dragojevich signal with his dive light that he was alright, but looked back at him again and lost sight of him when the line went slack, reports say.
Dorminy swam back and found the line tangled, but no sign of Dragojevich as he searched before surfacing due to lack of air.
The Coast Guard and Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission were first to search and were joined by divers Friday from the Sheriff's Office and Key Largo Fire Department.
Six people have died on the Spiegel Grove since it was sunk 11 years ago.
Most recently on March 16, 2007, three of four divers from New Jersey died during a penetration dive on the wreck that is about five nautical miles off Key Largo and 135 feet deep on the bottom.
One member of the 2007 group, Howard Spialter, 52, made it safely to the surface. Kevin Coughlin, 51; Jonathan Walsweer, 38; and Scott Stanley, 55, did not.
Their deaths and recovery grabbed national headlines, prompted online debates about the dangers of extreme diving and renewed local efforts to adopt more strict safety standards on wreck diving.
• In February 2006, David Hargis, 48, of Kansas City, Mo., died after surfacing in distress.
• Tarik Khair-el-din, 44 of Indiatlantic, Fla., died in April 2005 after he was found about 100 feet from the wreck with no air in his buoyancy compensator (commonly known as a BC) or in his dive tank.
• In April 2003, 48-year-old Eunice Lasala, of Fredericksburg, Va., reportedly lost consciousness just moments after entering the water above the wreck. Dive guides tried to revive her using CPR but she was declared dead by paramedics once ashore.

 

[redacted]

The Scuba Do release form ( http://scuba-do.com/documents/divingrelease_new.pdf) would seem to permit planned deco (if trained) but does prohibit overhead and penetration diving. I wonder if the divers modified their release forms before they signed them.