Diving ages

[GlennL]

I was curious because I was trying to figure out the 20’ difference with the determination between 11 to 12. I was assuming it had mostly to do with physical growth and maybe a correlation with ability to do like a CESA for example.
In terms of mental capacity I don’t understand the difference between being at 40’ vs being at 60. I do completely understand that mental capacity IS a concern for young divers in general though. With that in mind, people also “mature” at different rates. I have twin girls and I can definitely distinguish maturity differences between them with certain things.
When I said arbitrary maybe it was a poor word choice because I meant it in terms of a debatable topic. I did not mean it in terms of being frivolous.

 

[DogDiver]

Restrictions are based on medical issues. You want the growth plates on the long bones to close completely. Know one is willing to subject a minor to see what effect high partial pressures of nitrogen have bone growth. Had my kids X-ray done by pediatriatian to make sure the growth plates were closed prior to dives deeper than 50 feet.

 

[JamesBon92007]

Agree. I have often said that no one that young should take up scuba. Not based on any experience teaching them diving. Based on 19 years of teaching Band. I would not advise the most "mature" 12 year olds I taught to take scuba. 15 may be a reasonable age IMHO. MAYBE. I taught a lot of them too. But I am in the tiny minority in my thinking.

I don't know very many 10-year-olds that I think are mature enough to handle something that could turn disastrous if they threw a tantrum or panicked. Last summer I asked my 10-year-old grandson if he was a good student and the answer was "no." I told him that if he wants to learn to scuba dive he needs to be a very good student and learn everything, not just some of it. Since then his parents have reported that he has become a better student so perhaps he is a little more motivated now. In any case I'll be trying him out in the pool this summer and see how he does but I'm not promising anything. The worst part of the situation is his 7-year-old brother who definitely is not ready and will probably have a fit if not allowed to try it out too. This is going to take a lot of preparation and possibly will not even happen just quite yet.

I have a 16-year-old friend who got a "Junior" certification when she was 15 and was limited to 40 feet (I think) and had to be accompanied by an instructor or certified parent. Recently, while inquiring about a Discover Scuba course for her dad the instructor I talked to (Cozumel) told me that once she turned 16 she is fully certified and no longer has those limitations. I was a bit surprised that PADI would do that without requiring her to take an additional course. One thing I'm pretty sure of though--she will have to pay some money to get an updated OW card.

 

[TMHeimer]

By far the most immature scuba students I ever had were a couple of twenty-something males ... the only time I ever had to stop class and tell my students to go home, because they weren't taking it seriously enough. Never felt the need to do that with my "underage" students ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob, I can see that. But there are also some very immature 50, 60 years olds, etc.--if you look hard enough. I know this is a tangent from the OP's question, but I do think age for scuba diving has more to do with the cognitive development of the brain ("Piaget", as someone mentioned), as opposed to someone who is a jackass.

JamesBon92007, I believe the age for full PADI OW cert. has been 15, for as long as I can remember. Though I do have a problem with people under 15 being certified at all, I don't with the idea that once someone is Jr. OW certified and turns 15 they are automatically full OW certified. Simply because the requirements for Jr. OW and regular OW I believe are exactly the same.

R.- Another good example would have been my own step daughter, who was very mature in 6th Grade Band (when I first met her as her teacher). I would not have wanted her to take scuba then. I would have figured age 15 for her was probably OK. I THINK I probably would've been OK at age 15 myself. But probably not at 14. I recall a huge change mentally between Grades 8 and 9, for me anyway.

 

[GlennL]

I don't know very many 10-year-olds that I think are mature enough to handle something that could turn disastrous if they threw a tantrum or panicked. Last summer I asked my 10-year-old grandson if he was a good student and the answer was "no." I told him that if he wants to learn to scuba dive he needs to be a very good student and learn everything, not just some of it. Since then his parents have reported that he has become a better student so perhaps he is a little more motivated now. In any case I'll be trying him out in the pool this summer and see how he does but I'm not promising anything. The worst part of the situation is his 7-year-old brother who definitely is not ready and will probably have a fit if not allowed to try it out too. This is going to take a lot of preparation and possibly will not even happen just quite yet.

I have a 16-year-old friend who got a "Junior" certification when she was 15 and was limited to 40 feet (I think) and had to be accompanied by an instructor or certified parent. Recently, while inquiring about a Discover Scuba course for her dad the instructor I talked to (Cozumel) told me that once she turned 16 she is fully certified and no longer has those limitations. I was a bit surprised that PADI would do that without requiring her to take an additional course. One thing I'm pretty sure of though--she will have to pay some money to get an updated OW card.

My understanding is that a legitimate junior diver card can simply be upgraded by requesting it through PADI. No additional courses Needed. After all, to get the junior rating in the first place the diver has to meet ALL requirements that the typical adult would.

My twin daughters are 11. One is very interested in diving and can perform every skill in my pool ( well except cesa, no room for that). The other interested but is not capable in my opinion. For the one that is capable, she completed her elearning completely by herself. When she failed sections we went to her room where she has a dry erase board, and I literally drew pictures and explained things until she understood. She can literally plan dives with the erdpml by herself. I also have a son who is 7. He likes to hang out breathing off the reg in the pool. You mentioned your 7 year old “trying it out”. My son is perfectly happy in my pool just breathing underwater. My pool is only 8’ deep but still fun for the kids.

My kids are interested in my hobbies. I like that. I want to share interests and have fun together. I think of myself as a very capable diver and hold certs from several agencies. I am a PADI DM, SDI solo, TDI cavern, etc. im not blind to risk. My daughter isn’t diving without me, and I’m not letting anything happen to her. Period. That’s why I am asking about the 40-60’ difference. I don’t want to jeopardize her growth. But if the main factor according to PADI is age because of mental ability, I don’t necessarily agree with that. And remember, I said I have twins. One is capable in my opinion, the other is not. So I get the mental aspects.
I don’t want to affect my daughters physical growth. That’s why I ask.
And that’s why I wonder about pressure influences at participating depths. If a junior diver hits 40’ then they have already entered the next atmosphere.
What effects are there in depth changes in the same atmosphere vs depth changes between atmospheres? And I’m not talking about nitrogen loading obviously. I’m talking about physiological effects to the body.

 

[GlennL]

I can see that. But there are also some very immature 50, 60 years olds, etc.--if you look hard enough. I know this is a tangent from the OP's question, but I do think age for scuba diving has more to do with the cognitive development of the brain ("Piaget", as someone mentioned), as opposed to someone who is a jackass.

Jamesbon92007, I believe the age for full PADI OW cert. has been 15, for as long as I can remember

I have dived with several jackasses. We can say they are the exception (or are they) rather than norm.

 

[GlennL]

Also by the way, the fact that I acknowledge that i think one twin is capable while the other is not should let you know that I am not strictly analyzing age but n accordance with protocol. I am looking at what I truly feel is capability.

 

[TMHeimer]

I think JamesBon92007 makes the best point. Everything is fine for probably a good % of very young divers unless something causes a serious situation. On "age" threads before someone mentioned that Dad (or Mom) and 12 year old child can be certified same class and dive as buddies on dive #1. The kid panics and the parent is a rookie. Or worse, the parent dies and the kid is unable to rescue him/her. Sorry to drum up this old stuff, but it's a subject I've thought a lot about over time.
I personally think kids should snorkel as early as they physically can, and do a lot of it (well, not 40 years like me before OW cert.). I just think that it's not wise to risk the consequences--considering the child will have a lifetime of scuba ahead of him/her, even if not starting 'til 20--or much later. So the kid is super interested at age 11--many kids would be. Have to say no, just one of those things.

 

[GlennL]

I think JamesBon92007 makes the best point. Everything is fine for probably a good % of very young divers unless something causes a serious situation. On age threads before someone mentioned that Dad (or Mom) and 12 year old child can be certified same class and dive as buddies on dive #1. The kid panics and the parent is a rookie. Or worse, the parent dies and the kid is unable to rescue him/her. Sorry to drum up this old stuff, but it's a subject I've thought a lot about over time.

I agree with you mostly. If a rookie diver wanted to cert their young kid just to have a companion. I probably wouldn’t support that.
However, I really don’t view myself as a rookie diver. And I would do anything and everything (including sacrificing myself) before I let my daughter suffer.
I enjoy diving. I dive solo and have no problem with that.
But, my kid wants to have fun with me. Like I said, I have twins. I think one is ok, but the other definitely not.
I just want to enjoy time with my kid, but not jeopardize her growth. And at this point she has already said she wants to dive the springs with me, but not ready for the ocean. I am fine with that. But let’s say we go to the blue grotto. The air bell is at like 30’. It’s technically under the overhead, but only like 20’ in under the overhang( I really don’t care about any of y’alls technicalities with this, so don’t waste your time) If we simply went to the airbell and straight down to the bottom. We would exceed 40’ depth.
I want to let my daughter experience what she can, but I don’t want to harm her. Hopefully you all understand what I mean and don’t start the million what if different scenarios.

 

[GlennL]

even if not starting 'til 20--or much later. So the kid is super interested at age 11--many kids would be. Have to say no, just one of those things.

I really hate to be “that guy” .. but as an Air Force veteran, how would you say it’s ok for an 18 year old to deploy and fight in an international war, but they might not have the mental fortitude to scuba dive until they are 20, or “much later”?