Diving lessons disappointment

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Actually even if she's not certified it might be fun for her to meet with us anyways. It's not planned yet, but there's talk of a new years dive at Beaver Lake instead of Oronogo. If it happens I'd suggest that she drop by and say hello, maybe get a feel for the shops in the area.

Check out the midwest muck divers forum for up to date data on the dive plans, i.e. to see if they firm up.
 
This is the version of the facts of the class in which this student was enrolled straight from the Instructor in question. I own the LDS in question.

First of all, the class in which “seastargf” was enrolled actually took place in August, not “recently or in September” as has been asserted.

Secondly, she claims there were 10 people in her class. There were actually 7, of which she was indeed the only female.

Third, I in many cases have been told I am too relaxed with my students. That is about as far from “military” as I can imagine. I like to tell jokes and stories in my classes, get to know my students, and ensure their success and happiness in my class, as well as their diving experiences afterwards. I have had numerous students (including many females and mothers of young students) write letters to the agency through which I certify divers praising my efforts and my patience. With over 300 student certifications of all levels to my name and literally hundreds more students I have worked with in the classroom and pool, I feel like I know when a student is having difficulties and can take the appropriate measures to ensure their success. I have also had many students struggle with various skills only to overcome them and find great success in their diving instruction based upon my suggestions and my patience and understanding.

Fourth, on the first day of class everyone did quite well and the classroom and pool work went smoothly. “Seastargf” had a few difficulties with her mask but was able to overcome them making me feel comfortable with her, so she could continue with the pool skills the next day. Class went well on the first day, and we accomplished everything I wanted to and then some. I was very pleased. When the second day arrived I told the class first thing that morning that because class had gone well the day before I didn’t imagine we would need the entire time allotted and I anticipated us getting out early. Not wanting to back myself into a corner, I also told the class that we would “play it by ear” as far as time was concerned, and that I was making no promises. At no time did I ever rush the class through or try to insinuate that I had better, or more important things to do than to teach my students how to scuba dive. After we finished the class work and the final we got into the pool. This was at about 10:30am. It was too early for lunch, so I decided we would get a few things done and then break for lunch, depending on how far along we were. Again, I told my students we would “see how things go”.

“Seastargf” began having problems on the second day with the very same mask skills, which she had worked through the day before. Having seen such scenarios before, I was patient with her and worked with her, attempting to show her every way I knew to work through this problem. Having helped hundreds through the same issues, I knew what I was talking about. “Seastargf” would not heed my advice, however, and would not listen to what I was saying, similar to the first day when I was forced to repeat many explanations because she was not paying attention. When we were underwater she several times tried to spit her regulator out of her mouth. Thinking back on previous experiences, I gently placed my hand on her regulator to hold it in several times until she tried to force my hand away from her regulator. At that point I decided we should surface and talk about what was going on. After some surface discussions, we again submerged and tried again. “Seastargf” made the same mistakes over and over again, clearly not listening to my advice. After about 30 minutes of trying with her mask, I decided I couldn’t keep my other 6 students (who had all successfully completed the skill) waiting any longer.

On the surface, I told “Seastargf” that I wanted her to stay in the pool with us and practice some of the other skills. I promised her that I wouldn’t ask her to do anything more with her mask that day. I suggested trying the bathtub at home as well as some other common remedies. I also told her that I was not comfortable enough with her skill level at that time to allow her to move to the open water portion of the class. I told her that she was more than welcome to finish with another class for free, or if she felt private lessons would help, those were available for $50 per session (NOT per hour as she has stated). I told her that more than likely one private session would finish the pool, at which time she would be able to move to the open water. I was extremely patient and diplomatic, and at no time did I bash her skills or make her feel like scuba diving was not for her. My decision not to allow her to finish the pool that day was for her own safety and enjoyment. The charge for the private lessons is to get people to try to stick with the regular classes (which again, she was told, she could go into at no additional charge) as the LDS for which I teach likes to see the comradery among students and the oftentimes lifelong bond formed between students as they learn to dive. She decided at this point, however, that she wanted to leave, despite the fact that I told her I wanted her to stay and even practice with me after the rest of the class was finished if she felt up to it. The time she got out of the pool was at about 11:30am. Hardly, in my opinion, working through lunch.

The next week “seastargf” contacted the LDS and again was told she could finish with another class for no additional charge. She was also offered the private option. Collectively, as an LDS, we have certified thousands of female divers who had been elated at our professionalism, our care, our patience, and our understanding. If she was not pleased with my teaching methods there were other instructors at the LDS from whom she could have taken lessons to finish her class.

Furthermore, the pool in which I was conducting “seastargf’s” class is 17 feet wide with pristine visibility. “Seastargf” claims I was too far away from her for her to be able to see me or for me to be able to effectively instruct her. This is absolutely not true. Any distance between “seastargf” and myself is because she chose to sit in the pool rather than kneel down, thus placing her legs between her and me. I asked her repeatedly to kneel down as the rest of the class was doing. She, for some reason however, refused to do so.

Another person posted a comment about “seastargf” having been through 3 Discover Scubas and still had problems with the mask. Any dive professional familiar with Discover Scuba knows that mask flooding is an essential part of that introduction.

The fact that “Seastargf” is somewhat articulate (albeit less than accurate) coupled with another LDS in town now engaged in a negative marketing campaign on Scubaboard is not helping the situation. Those of you who have read what I have written thus far should be able to paint for yourself a clear picture. The LDS for which I teach and I are not villains we have been portrayed. We simply have a misunderstanding coupled with an unsatisfied customer who prefers to get online and “stir the pot” rather than to try to remedy the problem with us.

BTW, the offer to come back and take classes for no charge with another Instructor still stands.
 
Randy, I have been reading this from the beginning and kept quiet..But felt that there is her story, the instructors story and the truth in there somewhere..I have students blame the instructor-the facility -the pool-everyone else but themselves..As you know there is no "time" on a cw session but a list of objectives that have to be met..Most of my students-usually 100%-get mask clearing on the very first attempt..Granted not everyone all the time but more often than not..How did she do with her swim??was it marginal?? I find if they are not too confident in the swim they may be a problem as the course go's on..Thankyou for explaining your side of the story.I could be wrong but it sounds like sour grapes from her to me..especially being that you stepped up and explained yourself.
 
If she was having repeated problems why didnt an AI or Divemaster take her aside to work with her or did anyone check to make sure the mask was one that actually fit her?

Not taking any sides and knowing that diving is supposed to be fun, its dishartning when someone learning has a bad experience. But, you cant please everyone all the time and if someone was having a problem, it shouldnt have been that hard to connect her with another instructor that may explain and show how to do a skill that she could relate too better.
 
Sweatfrog/Randy,

Thank you for sharing your side of the story. It clears a lot up.
 
Holy Bombshell Batman! :11:

Well, this she-said he-said story is getting more interesting, and I thank sweatfrog for presenting the other side of the story, but - I still suggest all this is beyond what we should discuss here.

If the lady had problems with the Inst, that's something she could take up with the Agency for an objective investigation - something we cannot pursue here. Whether it's fire or just smoke is really not our business, is it?

On the other hand, if the lady sincerely wants to learn Scuba and get certified - 3 or 4 months after her last attempt, let's encourage her to get in the water. Sweatfrog offered her another course, different Inst, at no charge - I'd not expect any more of any shop. I never had a problem with a mask but many have - and divers learn to work thru their problems, be they mask drills or OOA at depth or whatever. I've been thru a lot worse in the water - usually because of my own mistakes, and we do what has to be done so we can live in an unforgiving environment. We learn, work, adapt, etc.

So how about we encourage her to get back in the water with the no charge offer...?
 
DandyDon:
So how about we encourage her to get back in the water with the no charge offer...?


Amen to that...bring the whole sorry episode to a close and get a new buddy!!
Sounds like win win to me!
 
you asked about simulating mask clearing @ home.
You can practice it in the bathtub. Obviously a pretty safe place since you are not under a great depth of water. When I got my first mask, I took a bath and read all the labels on the shampoo bottles{:)
Definitely find another instructor. A militant fellow, is not cut out for normal training.
AFAIK, you did not fail the class, he failed you. There are fantastic instructors, both male and female and you need one of those.
Welcome to this great sport and keep your enthusiasm. Once you discover the underwater world and the beauty of what I like to call, super slow mo skydiving, you will be hooked for life. Enjoy and welcome!!
 
People often post on threads after only reading the original post, skipping over the discussion. :(

Ok, I've done it... :blush:
 
Sounds like you should absolutely take the LDS up on their offer of another class with a different instructor. Having read both sides of the story, I wouldn't want to place blame on anybody, but I somehow doubt that repeating with the same instructor would now be the most constructive thing for either the OP or the instructor. The offer of joining another class is a very fair one. Try and put it behind you and move on!

As for mask clearing, I remember being pretty nervous about it before I tried it. However, the very first thing my OW instructor had our class do was to lie face down on the bottom of the pool (shallow water, about 5 ft) in full gear - but with no mask - and just to breathe, until he came and tapped us on the shoulder to come up. One member of our class intially had some trouble with this, but soon became comfortable with it after a couple of tries. Didn't understand the reason for doing this at the time, but when it came to mask clears, nobody really gave it a second thought, and our instructor was also able to introduce a task (in the pool, not in OW) where he threw our masks some distance down the pool, had us swim underwater with a buddy to retrieve, replace and clear it. Again no problem! In hindsight having us simply breathe underwater for a couple of minutes with no mask, before getting used to doing it with a mask, probably increased our comfort levels by millions! Obviously not everyone would be comfortable doing this, but if the issue with mask clearing is the "shock" of water hitting your face, it might help condition you to the feeling and improve your confidence.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom