diving semantics

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I had an interesting conversation recently, where there was a lot of confusion regarding intended meaning of sentences. I probably thought about the discussion too much, but I came up with a few phrases related to diving that I think are a little odd.

For each of these, ask your self was the second dive deeper or shallower?

1. My dive this morning was to 80', my second dive was less than that.

2. My dive this morning was to 80', my second dive was higher than that.


I would ask that you answer before reading other responses. Also, feel free to add other sentences related to diving that are a little ambiguous.
Easy the first sentence since 80' is a contraction of 80 feet (deep or depth) then the "less than that " can literally be taken to mean less deep.

And the second sentence means that on the first dive they went to 80 feet deep and on the second dive they got stoned then dived to an unspecified depth.
 
The concept of some poetry as a product linguistic naivety, either intentionally striven for, or as a result of unfamiliarity, of an attempt to learn a new language and in the process perceiving elements and structure not easily seen by a native speaker, is fascinating. Poetry as found art. Who is the poet, the language learner or the sophisticated linguist who rearranges in order to make visible insights experienced the language learner.

Poetry has been my life. I can remember a group of very young children, 6 or7 years old, who were encouraged to write poetry about their pets: "Oh Buddy how I love you! You can sleep in my bed every night!" It moved me to tears. The beauty that is simplicity and a form of honesty that is indistinguishable from kindness.

After many decades of writing and teaching I still have not found an adequate single definition of poetry. It's a word, a concept, as impossible to pin down as love or that special sadness one finds in Portugese, or the happy sadness so essential to Brasilian music, some of which is really poetry:

'A truchload of bricks in the soft morning light

the sound of a gun in the dead of the night

and the riverbank sings of the waters of March

It is the promise of Spring'


I think that great sophistication exists within some simple sentences because of images and associations, and genius:

"The apparition of these faces in a crowd

Petals on a wet black bough"

and Pound created someting that stunned me as a young student and continues to affect how I perceive external and internal reality.

And Chinese poetry, so complex that the words and the separate letters may mean very different things. Tu Fu, wo lived 1,300 years ago was a master, and his images sometimes shimmer like a distorted mirror:

"the moon like a clear mirror rises from the great void" But hidden in the pictographic script are other, more profound messages.

And the thoughs of well educated young British officers, scrawled on papers that were sometimes found in their blood soaked kits after their deaths, 19 year old captains whose poetry I taught for many years. Ispent some time, long ago, at a college in Oxford which had old style photographs of graduating classes on the walls, stiffly posed young men, classes of 1908 1909 1910 1911 1912 1913 1914, with their names written longhand in faded purple ink. Some years the great majority, most of them, had a small cross next to the boy's name indicating his death in the great war. No attempt at naivety here, in what they wrote, these dying children. Amost all of then cursed the war and cursed the political leaders who had sent them to a meaningless death in a foolish unnecessary war. How many are still buried in the soil of France and Belgium? I found it almost a moral duty to force these things down the throats ignorant unwilling undergraduates.

And then an assignment: "Blake's poem is not about a Tyger. It has another, far deeper meaning. It is a long complex question. Explain what it really is about" The key question for all we mortals, destined to die but having "an angels brain and seeing the ax from the first."
 
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And then an assignment: "Blake's poem is not about a Tyger. It has another, far deeper meaning. It is a long complex question. Explain what it really is about" The key question for all we mortals, destined to die but having "an angels brain and seeing the ax from the first."

I enjoyed reading your total post, but I thought I would give you some thoughts about an adjustment to your assignment (and others like it) should you ever find yourself in such a situation again.

The assignment as written looks as if it requires complex thinking for a response, but it really does not. Many people have written explanations of that. A student could look these up in a few minutes and paraphrase them without understanding. It is like writing out the correct response on a multiple choice test rather than filling in the circle.

You could instead ask them to use "The Tyger," "The Lamb," and perhaps some relevant portions of "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell" to show what Blake was thinking and then apply it to a situation in the modern world in a way that demonstrates true understanding. Applying learning to new situations requires much more depth of thought and understanding than merely summarizing that learning.
 
Sorry to be a bore and steer the thread away from its original "War Poets" theme, but I am now totally fixated upon this sentence:

Buffalo(place) buffalo(animal) buffalo(action) Buffalo(place) buffalo(animal)... which is as many buffalo(es) that I can string together, without any other word form, to create a proper sentence.

To add another buffalo, a different word form needs to be inserted Y/N?

I could say:
Buffalo(place) buffalo(animal) buffalo(action) buffaloed(action) Buffalo(place) buffalo(animal)... but that requires adding "ed" to the second action to denote past tense.
 
Buffalo_buffalo_WikiWorld.png
 
I got it!

Thanks Quero, I can go on with the rest of my life now :)

except.. Does this mean the impulse to buffalo buffalo in Buffalo is a result of nature (being born a buffalo in Buffalo) or nurture (being buffaloed by buffalo in Buffalo)?
 
I got it!
Since you seem to like puzzles, try making up a similar sentence with the word "police" and "police police" (IA officers). How many can you string together?

Does this mean the impulse to buffalo buffalo in Buffalo is a result of nature (being born a buffalo in Buffalo) or nurture (being buffaloed by buffalo in Buffalo)?
That's a philosophical question, I guess. I'm just a simple linguist.
 
First sentence describes a repetitive dive series, where the first dive was to a max depth of 80ft and the second dive was shallower.

The second sentence only makes sense if it describes a repetitive dive series where the second dive, of indeterminate depth, was conducted at a higher altitude than the first dive.

Words mean things.
 
Things: objects?
Things: ideas?
Things: events?

Q, It's like 1984
Police Police, police Police Police police Police.
IA police, supervise IA police who, in turn, supervise police.
 
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