Diving War Graves

[dweeb]

fine Mike, you go ahead and sift through the bones
at the USS Arizona to look for pocket watches.

if you can live with that, do it.

That's right - each according to his own conscience.
That's the American way. Let's see, with a name like Mike Ferrara, we can guess some things about his background.
If he doesn't get on your case for eating meat on a Friday, then you shouldn't get on his for not adhering to your morbid idolatry.

 

[dweeb]

I just hope to God that as my experience in diving grows, I may still be blessed with my sense of Morals :11:

I dare say precious few of you would be willing to live under the restrictions of my sense of morals. The difference between us is, I never asked you to.

 

[dweeb]

The problem here isn't necessarily having vs. not having morals. The problem is a differing perception of what is moral.

Wow! someone else understands what this country is all about. I thought I was the last one.

My idea of morals is based on how I treat the living, not how I treat the dead.

Same here, but they all seem to think that makes me a monster.

 

[dweeb]

About the way that I feel about it. Think about it. The Edmond Fitzgerald is not even a war grave and is in waters where the authorities prosecute people for bringing things up from wrecks (for good reason I might add).

That applies to the entire Great Lakes, and has nothing to do with the dead. It's for an even more nebulous reason.

The Canadian government has closed it to expeditions because the living family didn't want people tromping all over the bodies. I respect that as well.

Well, you're talking about a country effectively lacking freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and a host of other liberties standard in the USA, so that's no surprise.

What would the press think if you pulled up something personal (like a bone or wallet) off of one of these war graves?

The press seems very enthusiastic about it when they dig up another Egyptian mummy.

Much of the stuff pulled up off of the U-869 for example was to identify it. As far as I have heard, most of the people involved with identifying it ceased to dive it once they proved what it was. And if they hadn't identified it, the families back in Germany wouldn't have the peace of knowing where their fathers/brothers/uncles that served on the U-Boat ended their lives.

So identification makes it OK? Why? What compelling public interest does this knowledge serve? Will it cure cancer? Give us clean, renewable energy? Guess what, I have literally hundreds of ancestors, for whom I know nothing about where they ended their lives. I haven't a clue about where 3 of my four grandparents died. This lack of knowledge won't kill me.

 

[dweeb]

When I visit a cemetary, I don't trample over the Graves, but stand and look from the edges, in the same way if I dive a wreck where bodies are resting, then I will not enter but just look from outside. Just my 2 cents worth.

And that's about what it's worth to anyone but you. Those are your morals. You revere human remains like they're the tablets from Sinai. Others don't. We aren't asking you to adopt our morals - can't you reciprocate?

 

[dweeb]

As far as eprsonal effects of crew...the museums are loaded with everything from shoes to watches.

And hundreds gawk at them every day. This is somehow better than a few divers viewing them, or one person keeping them in a drawer in his home?

 

[dweeb]

To each his/her own but this is where i depart with you folks on this topic. If people who lived through the loss of family, ask that i don't dive a wreck like the Fitz, i would not dive her. The fact that many others would dive her if given the chance does nothing to change my mind.

It's a mathematical certainty that in some distant way, if we go all the way back to the Rift Valley, I am related to at least half the people who have died on this continent in the past 400 years or so. I hereby proclaim the sites of all their deaths off limits to all human activity. I trust you will honor my wishes, consistent with your above stated position.

 

[dweeb]

2. It is true that wrecks in salt will fall apart quickly.

3. But why strip a wreck! yes I know it can be preseved but if every wreck is striped, this is one less interesting thing for people to see.

As long as people sail the seas, there will be new wrecks, some sunk intentionally. Like they say "Crunch all you want; we'll make more." It's a renewable resource.

 

[dweeb]

digging up a coffin and taking the brass handles

Brass - limited resource on a shrinking planet.
Coffin handles - once the pallbearers are done, benefit no one.

At least a gas guzzling SUV makes some living person happy and gets them to work.

 

[dweeb]

Regardless, the casket was intended to hold the stiff. The ship wasn't.

Yes, everyone seems to be overlooking the issue of intent with respect to where a body happens to CURRENTLY rest.

Grave robbing is a crime. Salvage and exploration isn't. That settles it as far as I'm concerned. Your incessant whining isn't going to change my opinion, the same way that I don't listen to the strident whining of PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals) or most other groups who want to impose their ill-considered beliefs on the rest of the World.

Thank you, but be careful about mentioning PETA. Around here, you mention something like that and people assume it's advocacy.

Accordingly, you can feel free to get over it anytime you wish and return to the fascinating world of 60 fsw reef dives and Hollywood dives on the Spiegel Grove. You dive within your comfort level and the rest of us will dive within ours.

and viva la difference!

By the way, some of my ancestors were lost during the American Revolution on privateers. Its possible that they were prowling the Carribean and Florida coasts. So I'd appreciate it if you'd stay out of the water out of respect. After all, you might break off a piece of my great-great-great-great grandfather crashing around in the coral.

Splendid!