Diving War Graves

[scuba-punk]

Pearl Harbour is a place that is deeply ingrained into American history for truly horrorfing reasons, even if the reason you have stated above were void I doubt the American Govement would allow the Arizona to be dived.

Then why can I run amok through the train station at the WTC in New York City?

Sorry, just felt like kicking the hornet's nest.

-Frank

 

[Scubaroo]

I have noticed that GUE have dived the Repulse in the South China Sea, the group entered the wreck which is a British war Grave.

What do people think about this??? Is it morally right to do this????

GUE are not the first to do this. Diving charters run out to that wreck and others war wrecks in the area like the Prince of Wales on an almost daily basis.

Truk Lagoon (as already mentioned) is the classic example. I don't know if they're designated as Japanese war graves - but it's almost become a "must do" dive trip. Few seem to mind those wrecks being dived.

The main issue is respect. There's a difference between entering a wreck without disturbing it, and repositioning a skull to get a "better" shot (famous example in an unmentioned author's Nikonos guide book, which may or may not have been done by the author).

 

[Ontario Diver]

I don't think there is really an issue with visiting War Graves. Commonwealth War Cemetaries in France are popular picnic destinations for many. People tromp all over Gettysburg in PA. We have tours of the Catacombs in Paris and Rome. There are Voodoo tours of the Cemetaries in New Orleans. People go and see the mummies in museams all of the time.

A ship with the dead interred in it is identical in my opinion. It is the height of "look but don't touch". When some divers start treating the grave without respect, it should be locked down - just like a cemetary that is being vandalized gets locked up at night.

(and yes, I'd love to dive Truk or Iron bottom sound or Scapa Flow or even the Arizona ....)

 

[Lemonade]

GUE are not the first to do this. Diving charters run out to that wreck and others war wrecks in the area like the Prince of Wales on an almost daily basis.

Truk Lagoon (as already mentioned) is the classic example. I don't know if they're designated as Japanese war graves - but it's almost become a "must do" dive trip. Few seem to mind those wrecks being dived.

The main issue is respect. There's a difference between entering a wreck without disturbing it, and repositioning a skull to get a "better" shot (famous example in an unmentioned author's Nikonos guide book, which may or may not have been done by the author).

I believe, in Truk Lagoon Japanese actually collected all human remains that they could find and reburied them. Though, I heard local dive operators still have a few skulls stacked away underwater to show tourist divers.

 

[Jason B]

Pretty much every ship off the NC coast has been stripped of everything. Most of it on display in local dive shops.

 

[cdiver2]

I think a very nice thing to do would be for divers to do a dive on a war grave on remembrance day and place the appropriate flag on it. How about it SB members

 

[aquaoren]

I think it is very much an issue of respect. I see no problem with visiting any wreck where people died and are still entombed as long as you respect it as you would any other cemetary.

Properly done, a dive on a wreck where people have died, war grave or otherwise, causes the diver to remember and reflect upon the events that led to the sinking and on the sailors aboard much like visiting a historical battlefield. There is really no greater honor for the dead than to be remembered in that very personal and meaningful fashion.

The problems occur when some insensitive idiot decides it's his/her God given right to plunder the wreck for artifacts, remains, etc with no concern given to the dead who lie there or consideration to the feelings of the family members or countrymen of those who died.

There are a small minority of idiots like that in every group but they are unfortunately the divers who come to mind in the worst case scenarios that are envisioned when legislation is passed.

The "difference" in many of these diver's minds between a US or British warship and a Japanese or German warship is that "we" won the war. That reprehensible attitude reflects the same kind of devaluation and dehumanization of other people and nations that leads to wars in the first place. The loss and sacrifice of sailors is something that transcends nationalism, politics or the events of the time. Their duty, honor and sacrifice is something that should be honored and remembered regardless of what flag they sailed and fought under.

As a community we need to internally police our ranks to ensure that the attitudes and predjudices that lead to anything other than honoring a war grave during a dive are not tolerated or accepted. It is that type of self regulation and moderation that ensures that abuses do not occur and that wrecks remain open to diving. If a diver desecrates a war grave, boat operators need to take steps to get the word out and ensure he or she never gets another boat ride anywhere in his or her life.

This pretty much would summon my thoughts.
I dove the Salem Express, which is a ferry wreck in the Red Sea. It isn't a war wreck but supposedly more than 1000 people died on this ferry. Nobody really knows.
The accident happened in the early 90's, so it is a fairly "fresh" wreck and you can see many personal items lying around the ship: shoes, suitcases, tape recorders, cloth.
It is very spooky and you can't but think about the poor souls who died on the ship. It is forbidden to penetrate it but even if it would be allowed, I couldn't.
The older the wreck, the less problem I would have with it. It is a personal decision how far everyone would go but IMO it says a lot about a person how he respects the dead.

 

[Albion]

GUE are not the first to do this. Diving charters run out to that wreck and others war wrecks in the area like the Prince of Wales on an almost daily basis.
.

Correct

From a legal standpoint I believe anyone can dive the Repulse, but British citizens may not touch it I could only swim around the ensign whioch flies from the descent line

The force Z (which comprised the Repulse and Prince of Wales plus some other destroyers) survivors group are not too happy about this situation, but it is in international waters and not exactly an easy place to police. Making stricter rules would only drive this Wreck, underground so to speak. I think provided nothing is taken , and i know some operators are actively enforcing this then there should be no objection. If the wreck became further protected we would see unoffical charters out there, probably looting the wreck.

And there are remains at Truk as well, they werent all carried off and buried

 

[PhotoTJ]

Touchy subject. I would, if the opportunity presented itself, dive the Arizona. And almost any other wreck. That said, I can see the points of those who wouldn't.

A twin edged sword, for sure.

 

[Diver0001]

a couple of points to make. Many wrecks have bodies on them. I think the discussion needs to be made broader than just "war" graves.

Also, I think the cemetary analogy is a good one. If you see people walking around in a cemetary then it doesn't bother you. If you saw them stealing headstones it probably would.....

R..