Do I have a problem? Tell me if there's a problem. =-)

[gypsyjim]

, but who am I to go up to an instructor who has thousands of dives and hundreds of classes under his belt and say he's not god?

Does this experience sound normal, or usual, or out of whack?

Sounds like early on you knew something was not right.

ALWAYS trust your instincts! A part of your mind knew from the first time in that classroom that you were not satisfied or comfortable with the quality of the instruction you were receiving.

Our instincts are really seldom wrong, if we listen to them. It matters not one bit how much more experience someone else has, when it come to your safety. It is not their neck they are risking. There are plenty of DMs and instructors who can be downright cavalier with the lives and health of people they are overseeing or training.
Not a majority, by far, but you always have to be alert, and think for yourself, rather than relying solely on the "more experienced" person.

As I said before, you kept your head, and thought things threw. You learned from your mistakes, and those of your instructor. You did well.

 

[japan-diver]

As a few others have said - unfortunately your experience is all too common but it should not be. You paid for professional instruction and did not get it, from your description your instructor is far from a scuba god as you put it regardless of his number of dives or students certified. You have every right to be complaining. If more clients who received this type of poor training and service complained about it this would be a less frequent occurrence. A poorly fitting suit with no prior instruction in dry suit usage is not only dangerous but violates most agencies training standards for OW dives. An instructor who did not ensure that his students tank valve was fully opened before entering the water is lackadaisical at best dangerous at worst.
You dealt with the problems well but I would run not walk from that dive shop and find better instruction elsewhere to continue your diving.

 

[diver 85]

Good luck with everything, now & in the future, but honestly why did you not do all this about 6 months ago OR 6 months from now??..Seems like that this would be the worst time to get certified----also---Where are you traveling to in another month??....If it's the Caribbean, the "diving in crystal clear water" is sometimes not there----ie bad US cold fronts can kick (from my personal diving experience @ this time of the year)Belize, Roatan, Cozumel & G. Cayman's collective butts, as in seriously kick....Anyway, again good luck in your future underwater, you'll enjoy most of it most of the time(remember---:man can not compete with Mother Nature, she ALWAYS wins......)

 

[StreetDoctor]

strong opinions, type A personality.. sounds like a future DIR diver

 

[TSandM]

I don't know where in the PNW you are, lavachickie, but if you're ever up in the Puget Sound region, PM me and we'll go diving. Anybody who says their goal is to become a skilled diver is somebody I want to go diving with!

 

[CamG]

Greetings lavachickie and you were correct in your instincts about your class.
Do not let this discourage you one bit but rather let it drive you further into the pursuit of truth and perfection of skills. TSandM would be a rather awesome mentor for your diving future. She has experienced many issues and could offer very helpful advice. She also could show you the back plate and wing configuration and how it works.
I love your spirit and type A personality you will be a great diver and from your experiences so far you will soon understand common sense and caution rules safe diving practices. Mastery of the 18 basic skills is a must and a continued commitment to them can and will keep you alive. They are very habit forming and mastery will take some time especially in a dry suit / with dry gloves but it only takes practice!
I am getting the impression with a little mentoring and training you will be moving forward very soon. Please by all means take advantage of your offers to meet and dive I have found that learning from others can be awesome. It has lead into areas of diving I never considered before. Commit to training and being the best diver you can and never stop learning! It will be interesting to follow your progress please keep us updated. Feel free to PM me anytime for information or encouragement!
This board has been a great way to network with other divers and make friends it is awesome to have you a part of the dive community! Welcome and safe dive training to you!
CamG Keep diving....keep training....keep learning!

 

[divebunny13]

Diving in a drysuit without proper instruction is dangerous. Your instructors were remiss in letting you go into the water with one on, especially in poor viz. A lot of things could have gone wrong and I think the owner of the shop should be made aware of what happened. If they did the same thing to a less level headed diver, it could have been fatal.

Also, if I am not mistaken, PADI standards require a pool session prior to diving in the open water with a dry suit, especially when the student is doing the training while doing their OW class.

One of the more experienced instructors can correct me if I am wrong on that one.

Good job on being so calm about this all! Have fun in your warm water trip. It's a whole new world down here!

 

[offthewall1]

IClassroom and pool time went went. No sig problems.

My instructor told me from early on that he was going to put me into a dry suit for the certification dives (which occur off the Pacific Northwest coast... cold in November/December!). I didn't ask why

I was given the dry suit when I came in to gear up for the open water dive weekend. I assumed I'd get a primer; had been expecting a pool session, but started to get the hint I might not get anything. So I boned up on my own by reading all I could on the web the night before. (They require you take a one session course before renting them, I think, so I assumed I'd get the equivalent.)

I gave it a go. Liked the dry suit, but had an issue with the constriction (suit wasn't a good fit, the hood I had was too tight around the neck--another thing I'd mentioned but was told, "No, it's fine."). As you can imagine, buoyancy was a challange.

Adding up the lack of visibility, the constriction of the suit which contributed to lack of mobility, the inability to feel my gear through thick gloves, coupled with the inability to comfortably control trim/buoyancy left me feeling REALLY inadequate, unsure of my abilities beyond what I felt was usual--and even unsure if I'd be able to see my DM if I had trouble! But I had some problems, too, including a loss of air at 25 ft on a subsequent dive (probably my fault, but I had been doing surface skills and breathing fine, and was breathing fine on descent, then... regulator cut down to the flow of a coffee straw at best, and upon surfacing [after I semi-freaked out] we found the valve on the tank was almost closed).

...on the other I have a nagging feeling that the instruction was significant lacking. It nags at me to the point that I wonder if I should say something and, if I do, what is the best way to do so? My goal would be to constructively contribute to an improvement so as to save future students from worry, trouble or even outright danger, but who am I to go up to an instructor who has thousands of dives and hundreds of classes under his belt and say he's not god?

Does this experience sound normal, or usual, or out of whack?

You noted that the classroom and pool time went well. As an Instructor and dive shop owner, I often ask people "How do you know it went well?" If this is your first time in a scuba class, you have nothing at all to judge it against. The best you can know is that the Instructor covered everything in the book... and quite frankly, you can do that yourself.

The sign of a really good Scuba Instructor is that he can "take you there" situationally and make what you read in the book have some real world relevance. He can paint a picture for you of what he's talking about because he has been there and done that. Many Scuba instructors have - sadly - about as much experience as you did going into the class. Of course there are also the blow-hards. There are experienced Instructors who have been there and done that and while they have the experience, they really have no idea how to share it. They come off more as "Im God's Gift to diving... listen to me."

It sounds like you may have had the latter.

I see two major problems with what you described happening. The first is that no checkout dive should occur in a drysuit until you have been properly trained in the use of the drysuit. It sounds like this did not occur... and it could have gotten you killed. This bothers me greatly.

The second problem is that you were able to jump into the water for a training dive with your tank apparently barely open. The job of any good DM much less Instructor during training is to ensure that each students air tank is turned on. We train the student to be responsible for turning it on... their assigned buddy to check it for them... and finally a DM or Instructor to make the final check... why? Because I have stood on a pool deck and watched a diver turn their air on... then their buddy turn the air back off. It happens well more than you might think. This is to me - a second fault that could have gottn you killed.

My conclusion is that you have every right to be upset.

I would enter the shop in a nice, calm and fun mood and simply say, " I really enjoyed the opportunity to dive the dry suit... but I'm not really 100% comfortable with it. Can you have someone work with me on skills in the pool?" See what their response is and go from there.

As far as the tank being turned nearly all the way off - think back to if anyone did a final check on your tank before you entered the water. If it was a DM or Instructor, I would discuss it with the shop owner by saying something like... "I really enjoyed the class, but just as an FYI, (so and so) failed to check my tank and I entered the water with my tank turned off. Just wanted to let you know so maybe you can discuss this with him/her."

I believe that any good shop owner will act responsibly and know how to approach a member of his staff for maximum benefit to all.

If something blows up along the way - then I'd say look for a new shop...

Just my two cents.

 

[Jax]

From reading (which I've been doing on here since mid-class), I know that means (I think) backplate w/ wings, but I have no idea in hell what that actually is. =-)

Thanks for the replies, and I will take up the locals on dives in the future. I'm looking forward to having a week in January to practice my nearly certified skills at both my own speed w/ just a buddy and I poking around from shore, but also within groups on boat dives.

Gosh, not even certified yet and they're throwing BP/W at you!

Sorry to hear about your dives . . . especially in the PNW!! :cold: :cold: :cold: (I'm a warm water wuss, and a noobie!)

Things I wished I'd known -- I wish I'd stumbled on ScubaBoard a long time ago, before I bought equipment. Now, as a vacation diver, it is not cost effective to swap to BP/W.

I recommend you read through the "New Divers" and "Basic Scuba" instruction as much as possible. Then, here is a good article http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/dir/44823-what-dir.html on the "DIR" divers.

Above, take heart in that you did handle a LOT of stuff thrown at you, and you didn't lose your head. Your warm water experience will allow you to concentrate on your skills, and the dive and memories will be fabulous.

Lastly . . . MOVE SOMEWHERE WARM, WOMAN! Diving in the 30's -- are you nuts?!?!?!? I don't even go outside if it's below 50!

Welcome to ScubaBoard! We have a lot of fun, here.

 

[DCBC]

I agree with Jim, the Instructor did not adequately prepare you for the dive.

1. Poor visibility - Inadequate visibility is a safety hazard for a new diver. Until you are certified, you are diving under the Instructor's supervision. He couldn't look after a class of students in 0 to 1 foot visibility. The dive should have been scrubbed.

2. Dry Suit - A preliminary pool session is a good idea with students equipped with cold water suits, gloves/mitts before venturing into open-water. It gives a chance for them to set-up their weight properly and get somewhat use to the equipment. Even if you are already an experienced certified diver, it's wise to use a dry suit for the first-time in a pool to get use to it. Putting a student in a dry suit, expecting them to do an OW Dive is ridiculous.

I am also concerned about the suit being too tight around the neck (carotid sinus reflex). This is an unacceptable risk for anyone, let alone a new student.

3. Pre-Dive Check - I'm a little concerned about the positioning of the "almost closed" tank valve. Was a pre-dive check not done by you, your buddy and the Instructor before you went into the water?

I would write a critique on the program outlining your experiences and pass this along to the store owner. PADI QA is among the best in the industry. I would mention something to them as well. Chances are that matters will be discussed with the Instructor. This may save an accident from occurring in the future.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not throwing stones at anyone as it's not my place to do so. I'm sure if the matter was brought to the attention of the Instructor and the store owner, things would be changed. Better to make a little less money than for someone to get hurt.

Good luck with your check-out down south!