Do you carry a backup SPG to your AI computer? If so- check this out.

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

You only mentioned eBay and none of the ones in your post was as low as $15. That's why I mentioned the DGX one.

Minimum shipping is about $9 for the DGX making the price $24 as compared to about $19 (sorry my bad on the $15) for the one I purchased on Ebay (including shipping)

Depending on the dive, it MIGHT not even be a reason to end the dive early. (you do maintain a general awareness of how much gas you have, at all times, right? And how much you need in order to complete your dive per your plan?) .

All good points, (even though we're getting off topic again and right back into whether a backup SPG is even necessary in the first place). The one dive had a dive computer flood with no backup computer or spg (or pony), I did continue the dive. Nowadays I carry a 19cf on deep, penetration, and solo dives so there's that.
 
Again, that is just my opinion. But, it would surely suck to have to end a dive early just because your redundant SPG started leaking gas....
It's a fair opinion, but is perfectly valid about all the potential failure points (did I really use that statement?) You make a decision based on your own circumstances

As you know, personally I have SPG's on all my rigs, and I used AI on all but my SM. It suits me and the way I dive, I could live without either one. In reality I only use my SG's for checking my gear on set up and pre splash. I could just go with AI, but the habit is so ingrained into my muscle memory that I can't' be bothered to change. What I feel though maybe the complete opposite of what others do. And that's just fine.

This is one of those subject where there is no right nor wrong answer - just personal choice
 
It's a fair opinion, but is perfectly valid about all the potential failure points (did I really use that statement?) You make a decision based on your own circumstances

As you know, personally I have SPG's on all my rigs, and I used AI on all but my SM. It suits me and the way I dive, I could live without either one. In reality I only use my SG's for checking my gear on set up and pre splash. I could just go with AI, but the habit is so ingrained into my muscle memory that I can't' be bothered to change. What I feel though maybe the complete opposite of what others do. And that's just fine.

This is one of those subject where there is no right nor wrong answer - just personal choice

Hmmmm.... one could argue that that is complacency. Muscle memory is not a valid reason to retain unnecessary failure points...

But, *I* believe in dive and let dive, so you do you. :wink: :D
 
The last resort of computer failure is to go to 6m and breath your gas down to as low as you dare and then get out. You know you’re are good because the plan had enough gas for whatever deco you might have.

What is the equivalent for AI only gas pressure measurement? Two receiving computers?

I also find it funny that a spare transmitter for hundreds of dollars is considered cheap by people arguing over where to save ten dollars for a pressure gauge only just fit to confirm if a drysuit inflate cylinder is full.
 
What are you folks doing to your SPGs to have so many failures?

In any event, whether you have a transmitter or an SPG, why don't you know how much gas you've got left anyway, within a bit? Don't you check regularly?

And by the way, find ways to compensate for your presbyopia but enjoy it because when you notice that your short vision is coming back, it means you are getting cataracts. Ask me how I know.
 
What ate you folks doing to your SPGs to have so many failures?

That's the point, they don't. People bandy about the failure point argument constantly

In reality the only additional points of failure on an SPG are, the mechanical spg itself, then teh hose and the HP spool. In reality neither the hose nor spool will have a critical failure without warning - bubbles leaking for a while (indeed HP hoses are designed this way with a permeable outer sheath. The connection to the 1st stage isn't' additional since there is an O ring on the port plug anyway which has a similar failure risk (ignored for convenience during discussions.

In 700 plus dives I've never once had an O ring failure anywhere on my kit. On our monthly trips over the past 5 years with a combined dive count from all the divers of almost 4000 dives their has been 1 LP hose burst, 1 LP hose O ring and 1 transmitter O ring let go. Always on the surface when the gas is turned on.

I'm sure someone somewhere has had an underwater failure, but personally a I'm comfortable with my decisions which are mitigated with a bit of basic preventative maintenance.
 
And by the way, find ways to compensate for your presbyopia but enjoy it because when you notice that your short vision is coming back, it means you are getting cataracts. Ask me how I know.

That's clinically referred to as "second sight". Due to the increasing density and resultant higher refractive power of the intraocular lens due to the incipient nuclear or posterior subcapsular cataract, most people become less farsighted or more nearsighted and often say "Doc I see so much better reading" (and often at distance too if they are farsighted) often followed by "I don't even wear my glasses all that much if at all". In fact at that point, the glasses often make the vision worse rather than better. They're so happy.. until they find out why. Not that cataract surgery is such a big deal, it happens to all of us sooner or later. But now we're REALLY OT.
 
That's the point, they don't. People bandy about the failure point argument constantly

I have had 2 SPG failures (spools). Both resulted in gas being lost. One was on an SPG that was only a couple of weeks old. It did not pop when I turned the gas on. It popped a minute or two later, leading me to think that if I were the type to wait until the last second, turn my gas on, and roll back off the boat, it could easily have popped after I was already in the water.

In contrast, I have done many more dives with AI than I have with an SPG and I have never had an AI failure.

In reality the only additional points of failure on an SPG are, the mechanical spg itself, then teh hose and the HP spool.

You say that as if those additional points of failure are inconsequential.

I would classify SPG/AI failures into 3 categories: Results in loss of gas, results in loss of accurate pressure reading (but not gas), intermittent loss of pressure reading.

An SPG and AI both have an O-ring in the HP port, so they share that possibility for a gas-loss failure. The SPG has VASTLY more opportunity for gas-loss failure, thanks to the HP hose, the 2 O-rings on the spool, and the Bourdon tube inside the gauge itself.

SPGs are well known to have the possibility (low probability that it may be) of sticking and not giving an accurate reading. In particular, the possibility that it could be reading, say, 600 psi when you really only have 200 psi left. AI has the possibility of a battery dying, so you simply lose your reading altogether. I have not heard of a case where AI gives a wrong-but-believable reading. E.g., the pressure transducer might flake out and tell you you have 7000 psi, but I've not heard of a case where it went from working accurately to saying 600 when you only have 200. So, I *think* this failure mode means that an SPG could fool you, but AI would not fool you - it would simply tell you nothing or tell you something you would immediately recognize as wrong. I would much rather know that my cylinder pressure is "unknown" than think that I know my cylinder pressure when I really don't.

An intermittent failure is something that would only happen with AI. It shows as "LOST COMMS" or similar on your computer. I have seen that very occasionally, but when it happens, just the act of holding my computer up to read it allows it to re-establish comms, so the "error" goes away within a second or two. I don't see that as a problem of enough significance to sway someone away from using AI.

All in all, the assessment of failure modes leads me to think that AI is significantly preferable to an SPG.

But, let's do keep it real. SPGs are very reliable (with some basic due care). This is not a pitch to tell people they need to ditch their SPG and switch to AI. It is simply to say that, in MY opinion, SPGs are safe and reliable, but AI (as used by Shearwater, Oceanic, Aqualung, et al) is even more safe and reliable (with proper maintenance). Thus, unless you would use 2 SPGs, for redundancy, there is no reason to use AI AND an SPG, either.
 
Thus, unless you would use 2 SPGs, for redundancy, there is no reason to use AI AND an SPG, either.

Dive computers are much more prone to failure than SPGs, they're a lot more complex and more importantly, those with user replaceable batteries such as mine are more prone to failure following replacement especially if the same O-ring is used. It happened to me. Once on my dive computer due to a failure of the electronics and once due to a flood of the compartment (although it was several dives after the battery replacement).
 
Dive computers are much more prone to failure than SPGs, they're a lot more complex and more importantly, those with user replaceable batteries such as mine are more prone to failure following replacement especially if the same O-ring is used. It happened to me. Once on my dive computer due to a failure of the electronics and once due to a flood of the compartment (although it was several dives after the battery replacement).

If your computer dies, do you continue your dive? If you end your dive immediately, does it matter if you also lost your SPG?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom