Doc Deep dies during dive.

[boulderjohn]

My number two is "The Rule of Fun: You can call a dive at any time, for any reason with no questions asked and no repercussions." He should have followed this rule too. In this case, hind sight is simply dead.

I don't think calling that dive was humanly possible.

Many years ago I heard a commotion in a school hallway, and I stepped out to see two 9th grade students squaring off for a fight. I cleared my throat to make my presence known, and the one student I knew said, "We're busted!" and prepared for the trip to the principal's office. Later on he came to me and said, "Thank you so much for breaking up that fight! He would have killed me!"

Ever see the movie The Outlaw Josie Wales? In one scene, a bounty hunter confronts Josie Wales (Clint Eastwood) inside a saloon, and Wales offers him the chance to walk out and live. The bounty hunter leaves, but a few seconds later he comes back, saying he had to do it. Wales nods understandingly before killing him the short ensuing gunfight. It is a perfect example of human nature--you can't back down from something like that. It is better to die than to face that humiliation.

 

[lowviz]

Of course they are mercenary. They are a business. For that matter every instructor is a mercenary that is paid whether independent or working for a LDS. Nothing wrong with being a mercenary. ...

Here is the meaning of the word that I'm using. If we disagree, that's fine.

mer·ce·nar·y

adjective derogatory

• 1. (of a person or their behavior) primarily concerned with making money at the expense of ethics.
  
  
  

 

[The Chairman]

It is better to die than to face that humiliation.

Discretion is the better part of valor. The dive should have been called before he even got on the boat. That's the good thing about the 'no questions asked' caveat. I was diving with a guy out of Tampa who wanted to show me how spearfishing was done. He shot a nice grouper, and a largish bull came over the top of us and grabbed his grouper. The fidiot pulled the bull over to us and started clubbing it with the butt of his spear gun. The shark left after he finished biting the body off of that grouper. After the dive, he encouraged me to hurry up and swap my gear over to a new tank. I told him I couldn't do the second dive because of an eye issue. I didn't tell him that it was because I couldn't see diving with him again. Like I posted earlier, in diving, hindsight is often dead. Forget about that 20/20 stuff.

A diver's got to know their limitations! ​

 

[boulderjohn]

Discretion is the better part of valor. The dive should have been called before he even got on the boat. That's the good thing about the 'no questions asked' caveat. I was diving with a guy out of Tampa who wanted to show me how spearfishing was done. He shot a nice grouper, and a largish bull came over the top of us and grabbed his grouper. The fidiot pulled the bull over to us and started clubbing it with the butt of his spear gun. The shark left after he finished biting the body off of that grouper. After the dive, he encouraged me to hurry up and swap my gear over to a new tank. I told him I couldn't do the second dive because of an eye issue. I didn't tell him that it was because I couldn't see diving with him again. Like I posted earlier, in diving, hindsight is often dead. Forget about that 20/20 stuff.

I fully agree, and as I have written before, I think a large part of the blame lies with his entourage. They are the ones who named him Dr. Deep. They are the ones that made that ridiculous promotional video with the dramatic voice sounding like they were announcing a NASCAR race. They were the ones that supplied him with the equipment he needed. They are the ones who said that he knew more about technical diving than anyone else on the planet.

How is a guy supposed to know his limitations when he is surrounded by a crowd like that? How is he going to back down with all of those adoring eyes urging him on?

 

[AJ]

How is a guy supposed to know his limitations when he is surrounded by a crowd like that? How is he going to back down with all of those adoring eyes urging him on?

It's not the entourage that's the only problem, it's the diver himself also that surrounds himself with these kind of people. He could have made different choices regarding his crew at any moment, but he did'nt.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I fully agree, and as I have written before, I think a large part of the blame lies with his entourage. They are the ones who named him Dr. Deep. They are the ones that made that ridiculous promotional video with the dramatic voice sounding like they were announcing a NASCAR race. They were the ones that supplied him with the equipment he needed. They are the ones who said that he knew more about technical diving than anyone else on the planet.

How is a guy supposed to know his limitations when he is surrounded by a crowd like that? How is he going to back down with all of those adoring eyes urging him on?

You see similar examples in almost any business or activity where you've got someone with an ego like that in charge.

It's not just that some of them they can be charismatic and attract followers, it's that they actively choose to surround themselves with people who tell them exactly what they want to hear, and avoid or actively drive off people who have the ego strength to tell them what they NEED to hear.

Some of the worst offenders can even pretend to be humble and while you'll never hear them brag, they crave having other people brag about them and tell others how great they are.

What killed "Doc Deep" was his own out of control ego that demanded that he surround himself with people who would tell him only what he wanted to hear to confirm his own brilliance and the soundness of his goals and plans.

 

[drrich2]

Just how much we should make of all this, in the context of someone who at least had the intelligence & information available to make an informed choice (however subject to distortion that may be by one's own attitudes/agendas, and those of collaborators), considering the 'dare devil' aspect of it.

It reminds me, a little, of a guy famous when I was growing up; Evel Knievel (we pronounced it Evil Ken-evil). I would hear from time to time of this guy attempting stunts that to me sounded 'stupid dangerous,' and for what? Fame, glory, attention, money? From the Wikipedia entry:

Over his career, he attempted more than 75 ramp-to-ramp motorcycle jumps, and, in 1974, a canyon jump across Snake River Canyon (which failed) in the Skycycle X-2, a steam-powered rocket. During his career he suffered more than 433 bone fractures,^[2] earning an entry in the Guinness Book of World Records as the survivor of "most bones broken in a lifetime".^[3]

And as a testament to how dangerous an effect this can cause, it seems he inspired his son Robbie Knievel to a similar life.

With dare devil performers doing things that, to many of us, seem useless (outside transient entertainment value) and 'stupid dangerous,' what should our response be?

Applaud & pat them on the back when they succeed, impressed by the audacity and accomplishment (whether skill, luck or both), or just 'enjoy the show?'

Shrug, say 'Oh, well,' and walk off with some modest sympathy when one of them is seriously injured or dies?

Should we look at Doc Deep as a dare devil performer instead of a self-intended scuba pioneer? Was he blinded to danger, or was facing danger the point?

Richard.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Just how much we should make of all this, in the context of someone who at least had the intelligence & information available to make an informed choice (however subject to distortion that may be by one's own attitudes/agendas, and those of collaborators), considering the 'dare devil' aspect of it.

It reminds me, a little, of a guy famous when I was growing up; Evel Knievel (we pronounced it Evil Ken-evil). I would hear from time to time of this guy attempting stunts that to me sounded 'stupid dangerous,' and for what? Fame, glory, attention, money? From the Wikipedia entry:



And as a testament to how dangerous an effect this can cause, it seems he inspired his son Robbie Knievel to a similar life.

With dare devil performers doing things that, to many of us, seem useless (outside transient entertainment value) and 'stupid dangerous,' what should our response be?

Applaud & pat them on the back when they succeed, impressed by the audacity and accomplishment (whether skill, luck or both), or just 'enjoy the show?'

Shrug, say 'Oh, well,' and walk off with some modest sympathy when one of them is seriously injured or dies?

Should we look at Doc Deep as a dare devil performer instead of a self-intended scuba pioneer? Was he blinded to danger, or was facing danger the point?

Richard.

I think it was exactly that; the Knievel syndrome.
Beyond that there was nothing to be gained for the furtherment of diving science. Any qualified diving physiologist could have predicted the outcome, and like many have said as a parallel "We've already been to the moon and know what it takes, trying to get there in a cardboard spaceship in yoga pants isn't going to work".
The only thing learned here by the diving community is to know what NOT to do, and the attitude and friends Not to have.

 

[Caveeagle]

....

Ever see the movie The Outlaw Josie Wales? In one scene, a bounty hunter confronts Josie Wales (Clint Eastwood) inside a saloon, and Wales offers him the chance to walk out and live. The bounty hunter leaves, but a few seconds later he comes back, saying he had to do it. Wales nods understandingly before killing him the short ensuing gunfight. It is a perfect example of human nature--you can't back down from something like that. It is better to die than to face that humiliation.

That's one of my all time favorite movies. My take on that scene is a little different, however possible still applicable to the topic. Its just my opinion (re the movie), but i don't think the gunfighter was afraid of humiliation. He was Afraid of backing down from a life defining challenge. Applicable here? I did not know the Doc...

 

[boulderjohn]

You see similar examples in almost any business or activity where you've got someone with an ego like that in charge.

It's not just that some of them they can be charismatic and attract followers, it's that they actively choose to surround themselves with people who tell them exactly what they want to hear, and avoid or actively drive off people who have the ego strength to tell them what they NEED to hear.

Some of the worst offenders can even pretend to be humble and while you'll never hear them brag, they crave having other people brag about them and tell others how great they are.

What killed "Doc Deep" was his own out of control ego that demanded that he surround himself with people who would tell him only what he wanted to hear to confirm his own brilliance and the soundness of his goals and plans.

I don't disagree. I believe one begets the other.

That's one of my all time favorite movies. My take on that scene is a little different, however possible still applicable to the topic. Its just my opinion (re the movie), but i don't think the gunfighter was afraid of humiliation. He was Afraid of backing down from a life defining challenge. Applicable here? I did not know the Doc...

I think we are saying close to the same thing--I don't disagree here, either. Humiliation can be in relation to what others think of you or what you think of yourself.