Does A BP/Wing really push you face down at the surface?

[ScubaWulf]

Totally new diver here, did OW and AOW back in Feb. Spent a while researching equipment before buying anything for my first "real" dives coming very soon in Hawaii. Ended up with a Zeagle Express Tech mainly due to the reviews on here. THANKS GUYS! Doing a modified Hogarth setup for it I guess you could say. Used their instructions to adjust the straps and added the crotch strap. I've been working in my LDS pool to dial it in. Takes more work than the average jacket since I am responsible for the placement of everything on it which honestly I am enjoying.

Setup is standard aluminum 80 tank, added the zip cord weight pockets and two weight pockets on the upper tank band. I have scrawny chicken legs that have no buoyancy so had to add weight up higher to get horizontal underwater. New front zip Henderson full 3 mil. 3 mil booties and Viper fins with spring straps that I made. AL Titan LX setup, nothing special, standard OW config for breathing. Added two D stainless D rings on the shoulders and two plastic D rings on the waist which came with the pad set I added. Only using the back pad to give me a little more head room so I can keep the tank a little higher. Flashlight clips to right shoulder, shoved into inner tube to not dangle, noise maker clips to left shoulder tucked into inner tube same reason. Gauges clip to left waist with stainless snap cave tied. Octo swiv with magnetic connector hooks to D ring right waist. Strap from noisemakers loops over inflator button and holds it close to chest. SMB clipped to ring on backside bottom of BC. No danglies!

This is such a nice clean streamlined and comfortable setup. I'm just elated over it and feel so balanced and in control that it's hard to describe. I felt like the sta-puff marshmallow guy during class in jacket BCs. Everything has a place that I decided on. I'll sit underwater clipping and unclipping things so I can do it without thinking while staying in place No searching for things. Its just fun!

If you're like me and didn't quite feel right in a jacket I'd say go for the backplane setup. I don't think you will regret it. My LDS tried to talk me out of it for something they had in stock but I held my ground and am glad for it.

Good luck and stay safe.

Jeff

 

[hg frogman]

From my experience, no BC will keep the head of an unconscious diver out of the water. BCs aren't live vests.

Everyone's experience (mine as well as yours ) has limits, that's one of many reasons why people shouldn't believe blindly what they read on Internet forums (or elsewhere).

The Scubapro Master Jacket BCD is also a life vest; fact is, it's the only (AFAIK) BCD homologated as a life vest (at the surface) by the European Community.

All else equal, BP/Ws (and back-inflate BCDs) tend to push oneself forward at the surface more than jacket-style BCDs (assuming you are not wearing a drysuit, or are using your BCD - not your drysuit - to float you at the surface ).

That comes from elementary physics.

That being said, this tendency is usually very manageable and shouldn't detract you from using a BP/W if that is the setup you like most.

Beware that your wing must be able to keep your head well out of the water in choppy seas - the smallest wings can't always guarantee that.

 

[jepuskar]

It's all about comfort and what you think is right for you. Doesn't really make you a better diver or have better buoyancy..so decide based on what you want out of a BC.

This forum introduced me to a BP/W and I love mine....but my opinion.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Totally new diver here, did OW and AOW back in Feb. Spent a while researching equipment before buying anything for my first "real" dives coming very soon in Hawaii. Ended up with a Zeagle Express Tech mainly due to the reviews on here. THANKS GUYS! Doing a modified Hogarth setup for it I guess you could say. Used their instructions to adjust the straps and added the crotch strap. I've been working in my LDS pool to dial it in. Takes more work than the average jacket since I am responsible for the placement of everything on it which honestly I am enjoying.

Setup is standard aluminum 80 tank, added the zip cord weight pockets and two weight pockets on the upper tank band. I have scrawny chicken legs that have no buoyancy so had to add weight up higher to get horizontal underwater. New front zip Henderson full 3 mil. 3 mil booties and Viper fins with spring straps that I made. AL Titan LX setup, nothing special, standard OW config for breathing. Added two D stainless D rings on the shoulders and two plastic D rings on the waist which came with the pad set I added. Only using the back pad to give me a little more head room so I can keep the tank a little higher. Flashlight clips to right shoulder, shoved into inner tube to not dangle, noise maker clips to left shoulder tucked into inner tube same reason. Gauges clip to left waist with stainless snap cave tied. Octo swiv with magnetic connector hooks to D ring right waist. Strap from noisemakers loops over inflator button and holds it close to chest. SMB clipped to ring on backside bottom of BC. No danglies!

This is such a nice clean streamlined and comfortable setup. I'm just elated over it and feel so balanced and in control that it's hard to describe. I felt like the sta-puff marshmallow guy during class in jacket BCs. Everything has a place that I decided on. I'll sit underwater clipping and unclipping things so I can do it without thinking while staying in place No searching for things. Its just fun!

If you're like me and didn't quite feel right in a jacket I'd say go for the backplane setup. I don't think you will regret it. My LDS tried to talk me out of it for something they had in stock but I held my ground and am glad for it.

Good luck and stay safe.

Jeff

Good for you!
It sounds like you really like your setup.

This is where LDS's kind of piss me off. They only think about themselves and the money they can make. If it's something they don't stock or perhaps make a high percentage on they bash it. Or if it's not a brand that they get an aggregate volume tier pricing deal on.
I think this is responsible for some disconnect between the shops and the customer.

Glad to hear you stood your ground and got what you wanted.
See, all those BC threads that people claim are beaten to death really do pay off.

 

[Puffer Fish]

The culprit in pushing a divers face/body forward is an over inflated wing, nothing else. The diver should be shoulder deep at the surface. The only time you will feel your face is being pushed into the water is because some is trying to drown you!!!

Wow, I guess that answers it. So using a 5 lb, bottom light, alumimun tank (versus a 8 lb negative steel tank) has no effect, where you put the weights has no effect. Even the size of the bag has on effect.... neather does what your wear or your body shape....amazing understanding of buoyancy.

 

[Splitlip]

If one is weighted (distributed) properly and the wing is not over sized it won't. Any back inflate can face plant you if the wing is large enough.

Edit: Caveat.. Beginning of dive ^^^. After a 5 or 6 pound gas swing, even my little 18 # summer wing wants to push me. If I use my 30# wing with summer rig, full inflation will face plant me in a heart beat. I kick back and float on my back instead.

 

[Puffer Fish]

Oh my god! Wait 'til he finds out that putting an Air 2 on a BP/W would reverse the earth's rotation (and probably cause the magnetic poles to flip).

They ought to put a warning on this gear or something.

But I do have a serious question, if a BP/W only tends to push you face down when fully inflated, does that mean that the diver "over-inflated" his wing OR does it mean that his wing is too big?

It's seems weird to dive with a wing that is so big that if you use it to it's capacity, it no longer works well.. Why not use a wing that works well through it's entire range of capacities?

Well that would require an understanding of buoyancy, which seems to be in short supply. If the setup is balanced when completely inflated, they you will be leaning back when partially inflated (DOH). It is easier for most people just fill it up to the point where it is vertical and then believe that anything more is due to not doing something right.

If you have the right size wing, then it would be no bigger than it needed to be, which would then, require it be nearly completely inflated to hold your head up... and that would then take some balancing. Easier to just get too big of a wing, then stop when you get to the balanced point.

Or one can just get lucky and have a setup the works at some inflation point...

 

[fire_diver]

Well that would require an understanding of buoyancy, which seems to be in short supply. If the setup is balanced when completely inflated, they you will be leaning back when partially inflated (DOH).

After ripping others for a supposed lack of understanding, I think you are lacking some. WHO sets thier balance based on a fully inflated BC? I (and everyone else I know who actually attempts to be trimmed) set my weights based on how I dive, not how I sit on the surface.

And once again, if you are putting more air in your bc, than is necessary to keep you head and only your head above the water, then you are over-inflating your BC. Anything else is a lack of understanding bouyancy .

 

[dumpsterDiver]

After ripping others for a supposed lack of understanding, I think you are lacking some. WHO sets thier balance based on a fully inflated BC? I (and everyone else I know who actually attempts to be trimmed) set my weights based on how I dive, not how I sit on the surface.

And once again, if you are putting more air in your bc, than is necessary to keep you head and only your head above the water, then you are over-inflating your BC. Anything else is a lack of understanding bouyancy .

Do you dive a lot in Oklamhoma? If I dove in relatively small lakes or caves or some other places, comfort on the surface would be a non-issue for me.

However, I dive almost entirely in the ocean, often on days when other people would not dive due to the sea state. For MY type of diving, comfort, ability to relax on the surface, get my head up out of the water to look for incomming boat traffic etc. all are significant factors for me when diving. If you have ever come to the surface in a squall and there are whitecaps everywhere, you may well want to get up out of the water as much as possible to see what is going on.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that putting the inflation cell behind the diver is going to affect how the device functions on the surface. These factors may be a non issue to certain divers in some conditions.

When I dive with a stage bottle, I defintely wear a BP/W. Tomorrow i am diving a BP/W because it is new and something to play with and I rigged a custom harness that I am fine tuning (and I made a new BP).

Not everyone who wore a BP/W several hundred times selects a BP/W for all their subsequent dives.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

My key to buoyancy is at the end of the dive with an almost empty tank I can hover at 15 feet with my wing completely empty and control my stop with my breathing alone. This one single principle determines my overall weighting 100%.
All the rest is weight distribution in regards to how I float around on the surface.
I find that with the way I am weighted and with my steel tanks and my backplate I can put minimal to no air in my wing on the surface and float around fine. A little air raises me up slightly more but I'm still verticle, and if I fill it up to capacity I have to fight to not face plant. I tried it once just to see what would happen.

The key for me is to not needlessly overweight myself so I have to put a lot of air in my wing to stay afloat at the surface.

But this is only for me. I can't speak for anyone else.