Does more advanced training include training in skills like "Drownproofing"

[Pinecube]

Of course, most divers would have on gear, unless they ditched it all.

Or never had it on in the first place. How common is it to sit in full gear on a boat while traveling an hour (or more) out to a dive site? Now what if that boat hits a shoal/large wave/kraken/whatever and sinks? By the time you think to grab your BCD (or lifejacket) you may already be in the water.

 

[RJP]

Or never had it on in the first place. How common is it to sit in full gear on a boat while traveling an hour (or more) out to a dive site? Now what if that boat hits a shoal/large wave/kraken/whatever and sinks? By the time you think to grab your BCD (or lifejacket) you may already be in the water.

So anyone who ever sets foot on a boat should receive "advanced" training that includes drownproofing? Or just the divers?

What about people whose commute involves crossing a bridge that spans a body of water? That bridge could collapse and those people could end up in the water.. so all motor vehicle agencies should mandate "advanced" drownproofing training for those seeking a driver's license?

Believe me, I'm a huge believer in everyone having solid watermanship skills - diver or not. But as John mentioned above, you needn't train everyone for every remote possibility. The benefit is not there, and the risk of overloading them with stuff they don't really need to know isn't worth it.

 

[dmaziuk]

Now what if that boat hits a shoal/large wave/kraken/whatever and sinks?

Can I have a Celine Dion with that?

 

[Frosty]

I think it just a differing opinions over semantics, rather than anything actually important.

Maybee another approach will work.
In another world that like a newly minted Private pilot or student pilot asking a group of commercial pilots and instructors if airobatics should be included in advanced training.
The question is a legit question.
The replies from all the com pilots /instructors has been." hey can you give us an example of when this skill would be useful to us?"
This reply is a double edged sword-First it requires the student to think and second it opens the floor to reasoned discussion.
The student then going back and reasking the self same question and argueing with the instructors just establishes one thing...

 

[Pinecube]

So anyone who ever sets foot on a boat should receive "advanced" training that includes drownproofing? Or just the divers?

What about people whose commute involves crossing a bridge that spans a body of water? That bridge could collapse and those people could end up in the water.. so all motor vehicle agencies should mandate "advanced" drownproofing training for those seeking a driver's license?

Believe me, I'm a huge believer in everyone having solid watermanship skills - diver or not. But as John mentioned above, you needn't train everyone for every remote possibility. The benefit is not there, and the risk of overloading them with stuff they don't really need to know isn't worth it.

I believe there are other things drivers need to learn first, but that's a discussion for another thre-... board. I'll keep to the context of scuba divers
My opinion is that since divers inherently spend time around water, they should have some basic water skills at the very least. We certainly don't need an Advanced Floating Specialty but if I were forced to mention "drownproofing" somewhere, it would be in an OW class during the 10 minute float.

 

[Frosty]

I believe there are other things drivers need to learn first, but that's a discussion for another thre-... board. I'll keep to the context of scuba divers
My opinion is that since divers inherently spend time around water, they should have some basic water skills at the very least. We certainly don't need an Advanced Floating Specialty but if I were forced to mention "drownproofing" somewhere, it would be in an OW class during the 10 minute float.

But doesn't that point answer itself? Divers are tested in basic water skills as part of their OW training. Ie 200 yard swim and 10 minute float done at the same time.
So they prove they can swim and prove they can stay afloat for 10 minutes.
maybe Im missing something but I figure if you can float for 10 minutes then you can float for an hour or more. If you can float for 10 minutes then you are in the position to recover from the 200 yard swim if you need to swim a mile to shore. isn't that basic water skills.?

 

[dmaziuk]

maybe Im missing something but I figure if you can float for 10 minutes then you can float for an hour or more. If you can float for 10 minutes then you are in the position to recover from the 200 yard swim if you need to swim a mile to shore. isn't that basic water skills.?

I think the disconnect here is people who aren't all that confident they can say afloat longer than 10 minutes without "special drownproofing" techniques. I'm fairly certain I can keep swimming until I pass out from exposure or lack of sleep, whichever comes first, so I don't really see the point either. But then in my OW class there were two people who could only float for as long as they could hold their breath -- who knows what their take on this might be.

 

[TMHeimer]

But doesn't that point answer itself? Divers are tested in basic water skills as part of their OW training. Ie 200 yard swim and 10 minute float done at the same time.
So they prove they can swim and prove they can stay afloat for 10 minutes.
maybe Im missing something but I figure if you can float for 10 minutes then you can float for an hour or more. If you can float for 10 minutes then you are in the position to recover from the 200 yard swim if you need to swim a mile to shore. isn't that basic water skills.?

Not necessarily. More semantics--define "float". I can float in salt water on my back without moving arms or legs, BARELY keeping mouth/nose out enough to breathe. Not so at all in the pool. Is floating the same as treading water to stay up? For the latter there is a huge difference between 10 minutes and an hour. As well, if you are not positively buoyant and swim 200 yards you'll already possibly be wiped out when you begin to tread water to float. I've seen countless OW students almost die after 200 yards swim. Now to get that mile to shore done you have to do that 7 more times. If you swim like my 2 brothers or can float without treading, you might just make it.

 

[Frosty]

Hey TMheimer--off topic a tiny bit. 6 months ago I thought EXACTLY the same as you re my ability to float. I have the added excuse of a reasonable amount of metal in and around some bones so if I wasn't moving I sank.
Thanks in part to comments here on SB and to be honest my father and my best friend saying BULL #### I practiced.
Turns out I can float in fresh water (swimming pool) BUT I have to make like a starfish with my arms and have full lungs--so breath from the top of the lungs. My biggest obstacle was the whole full lungs thing.Empty lungs and I still sink.

 

[rx7diver]

My open water course included drownproofing (four different techniques, in fact, with the diver wearing nothing but a bathing suit) as an important component.

Here's a list of the "drownproofing" skills required in my open water course:

1. Tread water (swim suit only) for 15 minutes, hands and wrists held out of the water, mouth and nose cannot submerge.
2. Float on one's back (swim suit only) for 15 minutes, mouth and nose cannot submerge.
3. Perform the Lanoue drownproofing technique (swim suit only) for 15 minutes, cannot touch bottom of pool.
4. Perform the Lanoue without arms (swim suit only) for 15 minutes, cannot touch bottom of pool.
5. Perform the "mafia float" drownproofing technique (swim suit only). With this technique, one holds one hand/wrist with the other hand, hands behind the back. And one crosses one's legs at the ankle. So, the diver cannot release his hand/wrist, cannot uncross his ankles, and cannot touch the bottom of the pool.

Each of these techniques was performed in the diving well of the university natatorium, TA's circling to gently push students away from each other as they inevitably bumped against one another.

I might be recalling the times wrong; they might have been 10-minute periods, rather than 15. But, I'm almost certain they were 15-minute periods. I recall being in the diving well a *long* time when we were tested, as we went from one skill to the other without a break.

You can't possibly appreciate what successfully passing this skill did for the confidence of this scuba student, who possessed only marginal, barely passable swimming skills when I began my open water course.

Of course, I might be imagining all or part of this...

Safe Diving.

---------- Post added October 16th, 2015 at 08:07 PM ----------

Turns out I can float in fresh water (swimming pool) BUT I have to make like a starfish with my arms and have full lungs--so breath from the top of the lungs. My biggest obstacle was the whole full lungs thing.Empty lungs and I still sink.

Frosty,

Starfish is a great description! As for me, having long and very heavy legs, I had to learn to fill out my entire lungs, especially the *bottom* of my lungs. "Pooch out your gut!" my scuba instructor would yell at me. It was a painful ordeal, all of this pooching and all of this stretching of my arms *way* out from my head. But painful though it was, you had to remain relaxed; you couldn't tense up. I was 31 years old in 1986 when I took my open water course, and I was still very lean, and my build was not the least bit slight. I was a sinker like nobody's business. When I finally managed a successful back float, you couldn't have found anyone more surprised and elated than I, myself, was. An incredible confidence building experience!

Safe Diving,

rx7diver