Don’t Flame Your Mask! (per Undercurrent.org / May 2018 Issue)

[northernone]

Never heard about shattering the tempered glass mask lens until this thread. I wonder if the flaming on that mask was be too intense or too long or repeated too many times?

There's a popular mask design which I've seen a few dozen shattered photos of from "normal" use. People have been criticizing the design weakness. Seems as though now it's suggested the end user is somehow detempering the glass during the flame cleaning and that explains the product failure.

It's interesting some of the broken masks were toothpaste cleaned only and in no picture I've seen of the shattered masks does the glass break in a way which looks how untempered glass should break. Both of these observations combine to have me sceptical.

...I've run over my mask unharmed, and I'm quite certain it's been flamed in it's history.

 

[lowviz]

@MAKO Spearguns:

Dano,
You are one of the two or three approachable manufacturers on this board. Flaming the mask is a hack necessitated by the manufacturers leaving out the final step in mask production. "Here, this mask is hydrophobic, deal with it."

You, as a manufacturer, could provide an additional service with respect to your masks. First, remove the film with this: Snorkel mask fogging/steaming up...

Now you have clean glass but it still isn't right because it is still hydrophobic. A million years ago when I started out as a productive member of society (as an analytical chemist) we had to clean pipettes so that they would drain clean each and every time. This can only be done if hydroxyl groups are added to the glass. If you want to go the other way and make glass repel water (and fog) you only need to silanize it with something like (Chloromethyl)trimethylsilane 98% | Sigma-Aldrich. Now it will fog like hell, but silicone would adhere to it. Hmmmmm...

We converted the glass pipettes by treating with Chromerge. We made it ourselves. Search on it and you will find stupidly expensive suppliers. It is nothing more than a gallon of 100% sulfuric acid with an ounce or two of chromic acid stirred into it. It turns a pretty deep red and you can use it until it turns green. When done, mix with baking soda and discard.

So, polish the interior, dry well, and then pour in some Chromerge and let sit overnight. Pour back into the working stock bottle. Wash mask well in plain water and dry. Won't cost you much to try it.

The real problem is that this last step is a total nuisance for mass production so the big manufacturers throw the problem in our lap.

 

[gopbroek]

Here is a 1 micron abrasive that works well. It what I see used as the final polish in removing scratches from aircraft windows.
Micro-Gloss® Liquid Abrasive, Type 1 Cleaner & Polish - Micro-Gloss - Products by Type -MICRO-SURFACE FINISHING PRODUCTS, INC

 

[Aqua-Andy]

I agree with the others, the glass should be cleaned by the manufacturer. If I was purchasing a $10 mask from Walmart it would be understandable that I would have to do some post production cleanup on the product. But Scuba manufacturers and dive shops have been defending the high cost of "proper dive gear" through all kinds of marketing BS, but they still can't deliver me an overpriced mask that does not fog without me doing some post manufacturing treatment on it. The mask I'm wearing in my avatar is a Scubamax MK153 which is a knockoff of the Scubapro frameless. The only way I could get this mask to stop fogging was to burn off whatever crap was on the lens that was causing it to fog. At the time this mask cost around $25 so i had no problem doing some post manufacturing treatment to the glass. Now if I had purchased the Scubapro mask for the $120 that it was selling at the time I would have found this unacceptable.

 

[tridacna]

Does the silicone continue to accumulate on the glass post-manufacture? The mask is in a closed environment and I assume that whatever process causes the silicone to pollute the glass continues to occur in that environment. This would negate the argument about cleaning the lenses post-production.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I tried the flaming method for the first time on a new mask before I sent it off to have my bi-focals bonded to the inside. I wish I had listened to people advocating the method years ago. Quick, easy, and no issues whatsoever. If done as in the Mako video a quality mask will have no issues as far as I can see. These Hollis masks were a poor design and I'm guessing a bad batch of glass got used.
Why are no other brands with a similar style seeing this issue? Don't blame the end user for a defective product. Especially if you do this anonymously.

 

[Dogbowl]

Does anyone know what model of Hollis mask we’re talking about here? My husband just bought a Hollis mask (M4) that looks identical to my Scubapro frameless, but with a different skirt material (softer and more pliable) and significantly less expensive. He flamed it. Now, if this is the mask that might shatter I would like to know and warn him!

He thought he lucked out and found a cheaper but comparable mask to the Scubapro. A cave instructor flamed mine several times and no shattering on my Scubapro (yet).

Edit: I did some digging and this example was a Hollis M1 but the author said that although his experience was with Hollis, he knows it has happened to others with different brands.

Lessons from a broken mask and a bloody nose

Now I’m just scared. Knowledge can be scary.

 

[tridacna]

I tried the flaming method for the first time on a new mask before I sent it off to have my bi-focals bonded to the inside. I wish I had listened to people advocating the method years ago. Quick, easy, and no issues whatsoever. If done as in the Mako video a quality mask will have no issues as far as I can see. These Hollis masks were a poor design and I'm guessing a bad batch of glass got used.
Why are no other brands with a similar style seeing this issue? Don't blame the end user for a defective product. Especially if you do this anonymously.

Jim-companies who do the bonding of prescription glass always clean the lenses before proceeding with bonding. No need to do anything when you send it to them.

 

[Dan]

Does anyone know what model of Hollis mask we’re talking about here? My husband just bought a Hollis mask (M4) that looks identical to my Scubapro frameless, but with a different skirt material (softer and more pliable) and significantly less expensive. He flamed it. Now, if this is the mask that might shatter I would like to know and warn him!

He thought he lucked out and found a cheaper but comparable mask to the Scubapro. A cave instructor flamed mine several times and no shattering on my Scubapro (yet).

Edit: I did some digging and this example was a Hollis M1 but the author said that although his experience was with Hollis, he knows it has happened to others with different brands.

Lessons from a broken mask and a bloody nose

Now I’m just scared. Knowledge can be scary.

Where does he mention that he flamed his mask in the report?

 

[northernone]

Here's some off facebook (sorry for the lack of photo credit, maybe I can find the thread again.)