DIR- GUE Doubles Primer

[the_one_who_waits]

How many days should a doubles/twinset primer course be? On the GUE course page I'm seeing some listed as 1 day and others as 2.

For an agency that's focused on standardization, I'm just curious why there's this discrepancy. I've studied up on the setup and reviewed the course overview and seems pretty straightforward for a moderately experienced diver. So why the difference?

 

[crofrog]

How many days should a doubles/twinset primer course be? On the GUE course page I'm seeing some listed as 1 day and others as 2.

For an agency that's focused on standardization, I'm just curious why there's this discrepancy. I've studied up on the setup and reviewed the course overview and seems pretty straightforward for a moderately experienced diver. So why the difference?

https://www.gue.com/files/Standards_and_Procedures/GUE-Standards-v9.2.pdf#page43

“The Doubles Primer is normally conducted over one day. It requires a minimum of two dives and at least eight hours of instruction, encompassing classroom lectures, land drills, and in-water work.”

 

[kierentec]

The minimum standard is one day, but depending on logistics and the diver’s experience, many primers (both doubles and drysuit) are run over two days. Since there is no prerequisite other than an open water certification, this may be the student’s first experience within the GUE system and equipment configuration, so a bit more time might be needed to introduce those components. I would recommend contacting a few GUE instructors that you are interested in training with and see how they recommend structuring the course for you.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I've studied up on the setup and reviewed the course overview and seems pretty straightforward for a moderately experienced diver. So why the difference?

It will indeed seem "pretty straightforward" if you have already taken the Fundies course, understand the GUE system, have learned to do the GUE-style skills and drills in a single-tank configuration, and now you want to learn how to apply all that to doubles. In other words, what Jon said.

 

[the_one_who_waits]

It will indeed seem "pretty straightforward" if you have already taken the Fundies course, understand the GUE system, have learned to do the GUE-style skills and drills in a single-tank configuration, and now you want to learn how to apply all that to doubles. In other words, what Jon said.

Yeah it does make sense, but still doesn't explain why some instructors cover the course on a single day while others do it in two. This seems the duration is instructor-dependent when it really should be student-dependent. And for students, the difference is significant in both time and money (at least $200USD)

 

[rjack321]

Yeah it does make sense, but still doesn't explain why some instructors cover the course on a single day while others do it in two. This seems the duration is instructor-dependent when it really should be student-dependent. And for students, the difference is significant in both time and money (at least $200USD)

Some instructors may typically have a student in a 3-5mm wetsuit going from a single al80 to double 80s
Other instructors may typically have students in drysuits going from a single al80 to double hp100s
Their different environments and experiences teaching have led them to adjust their courses to suit their wishes and how they prefer to teach. By the same token some instructors offer 5 consecutive day T1 courses. Others won't teach T1 in less than two weekends broken apart with a pause in between.

If $200 is "significant" then perhaps GUE is not for you.

 

[steinbil]

Yeah it does make sense, but still doesn't explain why some instructors cover the course on a single day while others do it in two. This seems the duration is instructor-dependent when it really should be student-dependent. And for students, the difference is significant in both time and money (at least $200USD)

Only if you're doing it for the cert, which especially for a primer class makes no sense. More time = more instruction, so if you pay more you get more. There's always something to learn, so I would never balk at spending more time in a class with a GUE instructor. Heck, I wouldn't mind doing Fundies all over again, just for the training and feedback. However, like the others have said, contact the instructor first! They are usually very helpful in giving advice and accommodating to your specific needs/wants.

 

[the_one_who_waits]

Some instructors may typically have a student in a 3-5mm wetsuit going from a single al80 to double 80s
Other instructors may typically have students in drysuits going from a single al80 to double hp100s
Their different environments and experiences teaching have led them to adjust their courses to suit their wishes and how they prefer to teach. By the same token some instructors offer 5 consecutive day T1 courses. Others won't teach T1 in less than two weekends broken apart with a pause in between.

So you're saying it is instructor-dependent, and the course duration comes down to their individual preference?

It's not the "same token". For it to be the "same" there would have to be some instructors holding T1 5 consecutive days and others holding it 10 consecutive days. Similarly, instructors teaching Doubles Primer in a full day and others 2 half-days with a few days/weeks break in-between.

If $200 is "significant" then perhaps GUE is not for you.

The $200 difference is the minimum, and doesn't account for travel and hotel expenses. For me personally, the cost is inconsequential. But this statement comes off as pretentious in the context of your explanation. T1 costs about $2.5k USD? So in the same token, if an instructor decides to double the course time just because they feel like, the you'd then be obligated to pay at least an additional $2.5k USD in instructor fees.

If $2.5k is significant then perhaps GUE is not for you.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

While not a GUE Instructor, the discrepancy makes perfect sense to me. For the reasons others have stated.
I did the same thing with all my classes.
If someone shows up with poor basic skills, for a private class, we are spending extra time to get those up to snuff, and it's going to cost you.
I rarely had people who did not know each other show up for a class, but if they did and one was obviously not honest about their skill level, they got sent home with no refund to come back another time. That was agreed to before the class.
It's up to the instructor to decide the best method for them to convey the material.
There's also the fact that 2 dives and 8 hours of instruction can be one helluva long day for some people. It's doable but not easy.
My AN/DP/Adv Wreck Instructor course was 5 days from between 7 and 8 am until 7 or 8 at night on some days with 2 dives per day. In 43-degree water. I was 53 at the time and it was amazingly fun but a grind.
The instructor has to take into account the ability of the student to absorb the material and see that it's ok to do in the time allowed.
Some may have decided, based on their knowledge and experience, that doing it over 2 days is a better option for student retention.
It's up to the student to look around and see what works for their schedule. I always tried to accommodate my students, but sometimes, they were just unrealistic in what they wanted to do and when.

 

[Lorenzoid]

So you're saying it is instructor-dependent, and the course duration comes down to their individual preference?

First, never mind what is listed on the GUE website for courses being offered. Call an instructor and ask, as Jon recommended. That's the bottom line.

An instructor can list whatever course duration they want on that website. Some instructors might choose to list their primer as a "2"-day course as their personal default, but then are perfectly fine with making it a 1-day course for students who are already familiar with the GUE system. Other instructors might do the opposite: list their primer as a "1"-day course as their personal default, and then if a student comes to them who has no prior background with GUE suggest that they will probably need 2 days.

By the way, an extra day with an instructor is always a bonus (though you pay for that bonus, of course). In creeping my way up the ladder of GUE courses I have hired instructors on numerous occasions for a day of "coaching" to work on skills that were holding me back.