dropping weights

[MikeFerrara]

I agree Rick. I didn't say always or never did I?

 

[scuberd]

I NEVER say ALWAYS

=-)

 

[sheck33]

Assuming in all of this the diver HAS ditchable weight, unless of course you consider the scuba unit as ditchable weight.

 

[Angie S]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


Who taught you that? The PADI OW text lists these responses to a low on air or out of air situation IN THIS order.

1, Normal ascent - You notice your getting low and simply end the dive normally

2, switch to buddy's alternate and share - You blew it or had an equipment failure. You signal (or not) and get air from the buddy who is right next to you

3, CESA - You doubly blew it and your buddies too far away. ALL equipment stays in place and you ascend at a normal rate of speed exhaling as you go. Of course you keep the reg in your mouth because as you reach a lower ambient presure you might get another breath or two.

4, buddy breath - they stuck this here because it's optional to teach and they don't want you to do it because everyone should have an alternate.

5, Buoyant ascent - You really blew it. Your too deep. You've done the CESA for as long as you can and you ARE going to drown if you don't get to the surface now. We have screwed up so bad that we have come to grips with the fact that we are likely to be injured and we're just trying to survive.

Dropping weights at depth is an absolute last stitch effort to live. You have to make many mistakes before this should ever happen.

Please get that dropping weights at depth stuff out of your head and avoid the instructor who taught it to you.

At the surface it's a different storry. If you are in doubt about being able to maintain positive buoyancy at the surface don't hesitate to toss the lead.

Thanks for all of the responses. I just got my OW cert a few weeks ago, and I have no problem admitting that I still have a lot to learn. That's why I ask questions.

We did a SSI course, and in the NASDS textbook we used it says that for an OOA, the first option is to share air with a buddy. If you have to take independent action, it teaches the steps as:
"3 R" rule: regain control, respond, react
Release weights
Exhale
Ascend
Arch out at 15-10 ft to slow the ascent

Now, before our class was over, SSI had just printed a new textbook that we were given copies of. In it, it does cover the Emergency Swimming Ascent as well as Emergency Buoyant Ascent. For the ESA, it notes that the diver should be ready to ditch weights when he/she reaches the surface so as not to sink back underwater again. Then it gives the EBA as a last resort and reinforces the risks of ascending so quickly, but says that the advantage of ditching weights is that is assures the diver of surfacing and in so doing may lessen the diver's panic.

When we decided to learn to scuba, I thought everything was going to be pretty straightforward. ha! I had no idea there could be controversy about so many things. Makes it a bit nutty for a new diver trying to figure things out. I do appreciate the dialogue though!

Angie

 

[MikeFerrara]

Angie,

I think part of the problem is that we try to reduce scuba training to a few simple rules that can be learned in a short period of time. You need knowledge. That is the tool box. However you need skill and experience in order to make effective use of the tools. There aren't any short cuts.

For instance your quote from the text...

"but says that the advantage of ditching weights is that is assures the diver of surfacing and in so doing may lessen the diver's panic. "

IMO, if there is a good time to panick it's when you are rocketing to the surface like a polaris missile.

IMO, the time to avoid panick is before the situation gets that far out of hand. Why would you need to drop weights that you may need to make you confident that you can reach the surface? Are they suggesting that you fool yourself into feeling good about the situation? Don't answer I'm just trying to present things to think about. I feel better knowing that I won't throw my weight away and risk a rapid ascent unless I need to and am comfortable that I'll know when. Rapid ascent are one of the most common cause of diver injury (other than hart attacks and stuff). Reference the DAN report. The point is that often an incorrect reaction is the actual cause of injury not the event being responded to.

Do we teach divers how to avoid running out of gas? I don't think so. We tell them to watch their gauge but we don't tell them what the numbers mean or how to plan them in advance. We tell them to end the dive with a few hundred psi left. We don't tell them how. One could argue that this could work on a 30 ft dive but new divers go streight to Cozumel and do 100 ft dives right from the start. They have no idea how to plan their gas usage for such a dive. They are relying on the guid to plan and arrange things so it works for the group.

For some reason the drop the weights sticks in divers minds. The Indianapolis Fire dept has had a couple guys get killed in training. They get tangled in lines and then start dropping each others weights. The result is drowning and AGE. These poor guys are tied up, panick and someone drops their weights and all the lines get pulled tight. Of course that's after they shoot up to the end of the line. If droping weight at depth is ever a good idea, I sure can't see it being the first choice. If I am ever tangled in a line and someone tries to drop my weights I will use my knife to protect myself. hmmm...maybe I should get a bigger one for self defense.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Angie S once bubbled...



We did a SSI course, and in the NASDS textbook we used it says that for an OOA, the first option is to share air with a buddy. If you have to take independent action, it teaches the steps as:
"3 R" rule: regain control, respond, react
Release weights
Exhale
Ascend
Arch out at 15-10 ft to slow the ascent

Hey, one of you that were diving before the bc and buoyant exposure suits? Is this the old ...
Stop, Drop, Blow and Go...?

 

[detroit diver]

Angie,

I think some of the discussion about dropping weights on my Palua thread had to do with the woman having anchored herself to the bottom via a reef hook and clip on her BC.

I think that most people would agree that this made it much more difficult, if not impossible, for her to extract herself from that line. The pressure on that line would have been increased by her dropping weights.

In a panic situation, things are not always thought out correctly.

Dive safe,

Jack

 

[ivansie]

IMO and of course depending on the depth at the time of the incident, asuming you are within a reasonable distance of the surface, I dont deep dive so I dont know what you do at 130', you might also loose precious time and energy trying to drop weights if they are not properly assembled for the emergency situation, since at that point the diver will probably be nervous, if he/she is not familiar with his weight system or has problem getting rid of it rather than just hit for the surface right away the solution could be worse than the problem... just my opinion

bye
ivan

 

[Angie S]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
Do we teach divers how to avoid running out of gas? I don't think so. We tell them to watch their gauge but we don't tell them what the numbers mean or how to plan them in advance. We tell them to end the dive with a few hundred psi left. We don't tell them how. One could argue that this could work on a 30 ft dive but new divers go streight to Cozumel and do 100 ft dives right from the start. They have no idea how to plan their gas usage for such a dive. They are relying on the guid to plan and arrange things so it works for the group.

I realize this is a whole different topic, but I'll take the tangent because this is interesting to me...

We were taught how to figure our SAC rate, and in our materials, there was a time calculator (the rotating-wheel kind) with a planning slate for figuring how long we could stay at a certain depth, how many psi we would need to 'reserve' for doing a safety stop, that sort of thing. Being new to all of this, I had to go slow and think about it when we planned hypothetical dives, but it did make sense.

Then, when the *new* textbook came out toward the end of our class, there was barely a mention in it about SAC rate, and certainly nothing about a time calculator. I am so glad that I got the "old" materials and the information about planning air consumption. Is the assumption now that everyone should have a dive computer? I haven't saved enough money yet for my own BC and regs, much less a computer. So I guess I'll be the slow one on the boat, sitting there with my antique planning slate!

Have a good weekend, everyone!
Angie

 

[sheck33]

ivansie once bubbled...
IMO and of course depending on the depth at the time of the incident, asuming you are within a reasonable distance of the surface, I dont deep dive so I dont know what you do at 130', you might also loose precious time and energy trying to drop weights if they are not properly assembled for the emergency situation, since at that point the diver will probably be nervous, if he/she is not familiar with his weight system or has problem getting rid of it rather than just hit for the surface right away the solution could be worse than the problem... just my opinion

bye
ivan

If the diver is not familiar with his/her weightsystem they shouldnt be at depth until they are familiar with their gear.
If gear is not assembled correctly they need to FIX it BEFORE going diving, jeeez.

It is the same with open water divers venturing into a cave,
if they go into a cave then what? Being utterly unprepared for the cave you are probably going to die and i cant feel compassion for divers that do stupid things like the above.
And as mentioned before, at depth there really isnt any reason to dump weight if you are weighed properly