Drowning victim resuscitated- video

[Farty]

I had CPR training at work in 2005 and again in 2007. Both were conducted by Medic First Aid International and are geared towards providing assistance if someone becomes incapacitated in the workplace... in which case drowning is probably not one of the major factors.

In 2005 rescue breaths were included as part of the CPR effort.
In 2007, rescue breaths were no longer included. If memory serves, reasons given were:

- People can be reluctant to give mouth to mouth to strangers or even friends. This leaves a point of ambiguity and may cause people to hesitate or do nothing to help if they think that rescue breaths are an essential part of the resuscitation processes.

- If the heart stops, there is often enough oxygen in the bloodstream to keep a person alive for some time. The important thing is to circulate the blood to the brain, which chest compressions help with.

- The break in chest compressions in order to perform rescue breaths can may be more harmful than the good that rescue breaths achieve.


I haven't had the opportunity to get Rescue Diver certification... but I've been following this thread to see if I can glean any valuable information that may help in an emergency.

But right now I'm still somewhat confused.

If a person's airway is closed off or their lungs are filled with water, would rescue breaths provide any benefit?

As it stands, based on the training I've had and what I've read here, I would perform chest compressions continuously (no rescue breaths) until more qualified help arrives.

Thank you for the info, you bring really good points.


PADI/SSI teach to do Rescue Breathing as part of rescue class and never mention not to do it (breathing should be provided even before the victim is pulled from the water if possible), they highly recommend to buy the pocket mask (my instructor asked me to buy it before the course) and always carry it - it helps to prevent the issue you talk about. In scuba the chance of drowning is high (don't have any stats but probably higher than other reasons why you would start CPR) and if you see somebody unresponsive in the water you probably assume he was drowning unless you know he/she collapsed on the surface after the dive.

In drowning, it's critical to provision the ventilation.

When you had 2007 CPR class did they teach you to do 2 initial breaths before you do chest compression? I am not expert but I think it should be done in general to help to clear the airways.


this is very interesting reading Part 10.3: Drowning -- 112 (24 Supplement): IV-133 -- Circulation

 

[ScubaBumps]

I don't mind the discussion of CPR technique, but critiquing this video is callous and offends me. Have you rendered aide to someone? You're lucky if you remember to take your hands out of your pockets, and then you are haunted for a decade about what you did or didn't do. Stick to the training you have and forget about the nuances. You'll sleep better afterwards knowing you did your best.

 

[DandyDon]

I don't mind the discussion of CPR technique, but critiquing this video is callous and offends me. Have you rendered aide to someone? You're lucky if you remember to take your hands out of your pockets, and then you are haunted for a decade about what you did or didn't do. Stick to the training you have and forget about the nuances. You'll sleep better afterwards knowing you did your best.

I agree with much of your post. I don't think anyone meant to criticize the caring people in the video who were untrained, but were more bothered that so many are not trained. I've dealt with a few emergencies over the years myself often without training, just doing the best I could - once doing mouth to mouth to my own baby almost 40 years ago as that was all I knew then. It worked well enough to keep him alive long enough to get to doctors, and the story goes on but it was hopeless.

Anyway, encouraging ourselves, our friends and relatives to pursue training is good, or at least watch the compressions only video and take action if the time comes.

As I said early here, I keep masks handy on boats and other water outings, and I plan to include breaths with compressions even if I am the only one trying - for now.

 

[Deep-6]

I'll weigh in on this too since I'm a Paramedic. Continuous Chest Compressions have become the cornerstone of proper CPR. Before the ratio was 15:2. It was discovered that the first 10-12 compressions were escentially "priming strokes." By continueously stopping and restarting compressions there were only 3-5 actual compressions that yielded cardiac output. Since then the ratio has become 30:2. Rescue breathes are not pushed as hard anymore toward the lay public (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED instead of required) due to the public fears of infection. Even in the ambulance, while intubating, chest compressions are to be continuous with minimum interuption. Once the advanced airway is placed Chest compressions are to be continuous the only time to stop is while delivering shocks. Either way its always better to do something or anything instead of nothing.

 

[alpanian]

In Switzerland we have to take a compulsory 8 hour rescue course for the driver's license. They teach us to use a ABCD technique:

A (Airway): check airways, remove anuything blocking and tilt the head back to clear the passage.
B (Breathing): Provide two (2) mouth to mouth or mouth to nose breaths (look for visible chest inflation as a sign that the air is making it into the lungs).
C (Circulation): Begin chest compressions (100/min). 30 compressions followed by two mouth to mouth or mouth to nose breaths.
D (Defibrilation): If one is present. Otherwise continue with the 30:2 process in C.

Though the above has changed since I took the course 15 yrs ago, when we were told only to do the breathing and to leave the compressions for professionals and certified rescuers. Now it seems more focus is put on compressions again.

 

[pwr2al4]

OMG!! :amazed:

I could only watch less than a minute of that cluster f***. I lost count of things done incorrectly! As a BLS/ACLS/PALS instructor, it made my skin crawl seeing how much good they were NOT doing that woman.

It just goes to show, if you're planning on having a personal emergency take your own personal medical team!

That video should be shown at every BLS class as an example of what NOT to do!

WOW, you beat me right to the punch. I am also a BLS/ACLS/PALS instructor, and ten year vet of ems. Im leaving for work in a few minutes and im going to make sure that all my fellow instructors watch this. I always always always make sure to stress first scene safety, but then after sending someone for 911/AED to then assign others if available for crown crontrol. Give them a command dont ask.

EVERYONE GETS BACK! CPR must be performed skin to skin, on a hard flat surface. Sand is one exception that I always mention since the first 6-10 compression should pack the sand down enough to give good resistance.

That was truly sad as well as incredibly pathetic. This is also why no matter how hard my lay rescue student do compression on the manniquen I am always hesistant to ever tell them to lighten up, because compressions are almost never adequte in depth in real life. when in doubt HARD AND FAST....

Not like any of this matters this whole thing was a clusterf from the word go. how sad.

 

[cruisegirl]

Sobering.

A video on what not to do.

Exactly. Talk about not doing it correctly. And I know some people try when they don't know how or what to do but I'll bet she had a lacerated liver by the time they were done. Very sad.

 

[cruisegirl]

In Switzerland we have to take a compulsory 8 hour rescue course for the driver's license. They teach us to use a ABCD technique:

A (Airway): check airways, remove anuything blocking and tilt the head back to clear the passage.
B (Breathing): Provide two (2) mouth to mouth or mouth to nose breaths (look for visible chest inflation as a sign that the air is making it into the lungs).
C (Circulation): Begin chest compressions (100/min). 30 compressions followed by two mouth to mouth or mouth to nose breaths.
D (Defibrilation): If one is present. Otherwise continue with the 30:2 process in C.

Though the above has changed since I took the course 15 yrs ago, when we were told only to do the breathing and to leave the compressions for professionals and certified rescuers. Now it seems more focus is put on compressions again.

How about checking for breathing first and a pulse? Nothing was checked at all that I saw.

 

[DandyDon]

That was truly sad as well as incredibly pathetic. This is also why no matter how hard my lay rescue student do compression on the manniquen I am always hesistant to ever tell them to lighten up, because compressions are almost never adequte in depth in real life. when in doubt HARD AND FAST....

I went on a trip to a lake with my daughter's family last week. They're pretty casual about water safety, and then there was the canoe and kayak river trip with class 2 rapids that gave us several spills. My youngest grandchild is 8 and petite so in my mental review and what-if planning, I always thing about how hard I'd compress my big soninlaw (all my might), my small framed daughter or teenage grandson (hard but don't put all of my weight), or my petite granddaughter (one hand hard or two soft). Mostly I'll try my best.

Then there is the rescue breaths question: non-drowning - no if I'm the only one to help; drowning - yes!

How about checking for breathing first and a pulse? Nothing was checked at all that I saw.

Well, we went over this when the vid was first posted, but at least they tried what they could. We're not sure if she made it or not, but it was her only hope - them trying.

I wouldn't waste any time checking for pulse tho; whether I think I find one or not won't affect my attempts.