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Dual Bladder Wings - A Good Choice for Redundancy?

Discussion in 'Advanced Scuba Discussions' started by dewdropsonrosa, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. divezonescuba

    divezonescuba ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Houston, Texas
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    I have a YouTube video on k type inflators. I would like to update it on the types of failures the k type inflator can experience.

    Could you provide some additional details on the inflator?

    Was this one of those $16.95 replacement inflators?

    Had it been disassembled for service prior?

    Was it the one with the plastic socket or metal hex head underneath the deflate button?

    What is original to the wing and what type of wing is it?
     
  2. MichaelMc

    MichaelMc Working toward Cenotes ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Berkeley, CA
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    So... I'm not a GUE expert, but I can at least analyze arguments.

    Why are you mixing up inflator hoses? That sounds like a training problem.
    You're proposing an equipment solution (dry suit) for a training problem (inflator confusion).
    Isn't this the usual DIR argument against gear they do not use.

    ETA: Now 'crappy cockpit + pilot crash = blame pilot for failure to follow complex procedure' is not a good plan. But 'inflator left that I always use' vs 'inflator right or stowed to side that I only test' is not very complex. Plus I can hear my inflator with my 10mm hood so I assume you can hear yours. Plus giving up the easy to dive wetsuit for a drysuit seems an increase in complexity.

    So... It's not the only way, but it is the only way...?

    1) Few argued against a balanced rig.
    2) "As many good things ... as possible", so you are diving under a Dive support vehicle, right?
    I'm not saying a DSV is the only way, but if you think about it... (see quote two)

    1) So, who cares if gear X has enough lift for a role we claim for it??
    2) If we are balanced, we need worry about neither drysuit nor dual wing...

    But if we aren't balanced, we still don't care if the dry suit has suitable lift??
     
    kensuf and jlcnuke like this.
  3. SoloMonkey

    SoloMonkey Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Hertfordshire United Kingdom
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    I use a Dive Rite Super WIngs with my ye olde early noughties transpac.

    I like the idea of the Dual bladder as when wetsuit diving it can be ideal to balance the rig by putting a little bit of air in both. Ultimately because of the centre of lift being one behind the other, you may get still a little "rocking couple" of the two areas of lift concentration being slightly out of phase with each other.

    For the most part though when in a drysuit I'll use the left hose as most people do so it makes for easy CBL rescues and the right hand inflator doubles as my drysuit for here in the UK. I.e. for the most part 3 complete inflator hoses is a bit of overkill.

    Both are driven from a Poseidon regulator on a relatively short hose, so GI3 can stick that in his pipe and smoke it, I'm a British diver and we do things our way.
     
  4. kensuf

    kensuf Cave Instructor

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    1. No, it was the stock inflator that came on the wing.
    2. No, it hadn't been disassembled.
    3. I don't know -- the assembly came apart and I tossed it in the garbage when I replaced it.
    4. Halcyon Evolve wing.
     
    divezonescuba likes this.
  5. kensuf

    kensuf Cave Instructor

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    I dive deeper than 30m in a wetsuit all the time. If I don't get blown out by Darien this weekend, I'll be diving wrecks in 60m of water on both Saturday and Sunday. It's about having a balanced rig, not the depth of the dive.
     
  6. BlueTrin

    BlueTrin ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: London
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    I was wondering about this, won’t you burp air at the neck ?

    I have never done that kind of complex dives with heavy equipment so it is a genuine question.
     
  7. sea_ledford

    sea_ledford Captain

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    I haven't read through the entire thread, so this might have been covered already, but adding another inflator adds more gear complexity and possible failure points than a drysuit inflator.

    Last week I was teaching an ANDP class, everyone was in wetsuits, one student was in double steel 107's (108?, something like that... about the size of an HP 100), everyone else was in al 80's. During the rescue portion, the diver in steels was the victim, and his rescuer either pulled a little too hard on the inflator mechanism, or it was just coincidental timing, but the whole head of the inflator was pulled off of the corrugated hose. Instant loss of all buoyancy. This happened right after regs were removed to check breathing. We were only in about 10 feet of water at that point, so ultimately a non issue, but in deep water it would have been more interesting. In a real rescue it would have been a fatality (if it wasn't already). Diver in steels swapped to al 80 for the rest of the class.
     
    EireDiver606, Jack Hammer and PfcAJ like this.
  8. helodriver87

    helodriver87 DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
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    Sometimes, yeah. Especially if you have to go head up. But it's enough in a pinch.
     
    BlueTrin likes this.
  9. DeepSeaExplorer

    DeepSeaExplorer Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Cave Country
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    I dive a dry suit with LP104s, without a redundant wing. However, I’m not all in on the dry suit as a back up for the wing.

    A dry suit is not designed to replace a wing and I don’t think it’s nearly as reliable for that purpose. A wing failure is a pretty rare event, but a wrist or neck seal failure is a lot more common, especially if the suit is being overinflated to compensate for a failed wing.

    So, while I don’t dive a redundant wing, I can certainly understand why someone would. I think that diver is being a more cautious/careful diver and that’s not something to argue against, especially on the basis that said diver will somehow not operate the wing correctly. That’s a strawman...
     
    BlueTrin likes this.
  10. bakodiver391

    bakodiver391 DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: Marshall Islands
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    Not this old dead horse again. Diving dry with aluminum tanks is idiotic and unworkable for the type of diving I do. Steel tanks and a redundant bladder are a good fit. Steel tanks and a wetsuit are idiotic for the style of diving others do, and a balanced rig and drysuit are a good fit. There, argument over.
     
    TrimixToo likes this.

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