Eel Attack in Cozumel (The Feeding of Lionfish)

[Fernie]

Just curious what was the name of the Dive Shop?

 

[DandyDon]

Just curious what was the name of the Dive Shop?

I'd dive with them. Why not?

 

[joyceschur]

DandyDon - Mystery solved. Amermaid was another diver on location that week and was aware of the incident. Thanks for all your contributions to this thread.

BJ139 - I'm starting to hear of similar encounters with aggressive eels and that's certainly disturbing, but the experience hasn't affected my attitude towards Cozumel as a dive destination or Villa Blanca as a reef. I've seen DMs hunt/feed lionfish in many other locations. What's changed is this: I have an additional question to ask upfront when planning future trips "Do your DMs engage in lionfish elimination during the course of guided dives?" If the answer is "yes", I'll explain why I think that's a problem. Good operators are going to accommodate customers who express legitimate safety concerns.

Fernie - I have intentionally not named the dive shop because it's a very reputable, safety conscious operation. The issue of DMs engaging in lionfish elimination during the course of guided dives is not specific to this operator. It's become a common and unquestioned practice. Customers aren't pre-briefed or asked if they have a preference. I think this practice needs to change. I think it will if there are continued incidents or if customers complain.

 

[fjpatrum]

I love arm chair quarterbacks.

I once had a remora bite me on the ear. My wife called the dive because of the large green cloud eminating from the injury. It wasn't til we got back in the boat were we able to see that the injury was a series of deep scratches. On the surface it didn't appear to be that big an injury but underwater it appeared real bad because of the amount of blood. Personally, I don't believe that underwater is the best place to determine the extent of the injury. I believe that joyceschur made the correct decision to surface. she applied pressure with her free hand and she had a good buddy who surfaced safely with her, lending assistance where needed. I know from experience that an eel bite is extremely tramatic and can cause some serious damage resulting in alot of blood, making it hard to determine the extent of the wound, whether or not stitches are ever needed.

As for the DiveMaster, I aggree with joyceschur, dude should have been paying attention to his divers and not feeding the fish.

Everyone else has agreed that she made the right decision also. There is no disputing that.

The issue comes with how she chose to word her post and the fact that she needed someone else to work her equipment. Poor wording can be overlooked. The necessity for someone else to work her equipment during the ascent, however, needs to be carefully considered. Especially from a DM who, in theory, is guiding other divers occasionally. How is she going to react in an emergency when she's leading other divers who expect a DM to be the buddy for everyone in the water.

Yes, she posted to point out the issue of feeding and so far everyone seems to agree with her on that as well.

 

[alibi 2]

I just returned from cozumel...the Dm's would kill a lionfish if found however i would say we would only find maybe one or two on a dive...I would discribe what they did as just cutting a slice on both sides of the fish and letting the reef fish eat it or a moray if one was near...but not filleting.. (as fisherman, ive done lots of filleting and to use the word fillet is not really correct)...I've also seen a lot of free swimming Morays in Mexico..in the daytime..they can be more dangerous when free swimming (probally because of that eyesight thing) and i've had them come at me with no fishing in the waters...I think they just didnt see me and I was in the way...and they always look ready to bite to me...but usually when they got close enough they diverted...

Im so sorry the bite happened, who really knows why when dealing with animals in the wild...I also got hurt once in the water,,and it really hurt...I got out a safely as I could but the injury although painful and wasnt life threatening (broken bones) there was not need for a CEA...and if there was a CEA doesnt not require someone else to manage your accent to avoid DCI...that would not be a CEA to me that would be more of a panicked accent (which could be understandable with a bite,,,but dangerous for a DM)...Im so glad no further injury was incurred...

Things are done differently in foregion countries...It was my first visit to Cozumal and I can't wait to go back...unbelievabley beautiful...I did get on video the dm killing and cutting a lion fish and feeding it to a grouper and maybe a moray...once i find it and edit it ,,,i will post a link so folks can see what they are doing..

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Joyce glad you are ok.

As someone has already commented I made a decision (years ago) that I would not participate in a dive that involved feeding of the creatures. I will not support a practice that encourages creatures to look to divers for food instead of keeping the natural balance.

I did not interpret the OP's posts to be about expectations that the DM should have intervened on her behalf but that the DM's activities perhaps contributed to the situation that developed. It may be accepted processes there.. I don't dive there so I don't know but it seems to me that the process needs to be reassessed.

I would expect anyone who is trying to control bleeding on one hand with the other hand to have difficulty controlling their BCD no matter what their training.

I have to agree with DandyDon.. people will not share their experiences so we can learn from them if they that posters who do are not treated with consideration and respect. my .02

 

[rramaley]

DM's have different roles in different places; what I want best is a clear understanding of their role for the dive we are doing today. In Little Cayman it was made clear in each breifing that we could go on our own as buddy teams or stay with the DM for a tour - and that the DM would be killing lionfish they find or are pointed out to them. .

I'm a rare poster, preferring to listen more than talk but I'm tempted to post here.

I think Qnape has hit the issue on the head - for me at least. I would propose that a possible solution could be (at least in part) about having a pre-dive brief that attempts to give each participant a clear understanding of what is going to happen INCLUDING what the expected roles of each participant will be on that particular dive. If any individual does not like what they hear, they are welcome to debate it prior to the dive and / or make a decision whether they still feel comfortable diving giving that knowledge. (of course, there may be language barriers which is a whole new kettle of fish...) As with what happened with Qnape, this could be when a DM mentions that he is an avowed Lionfish Slayer and will be ridding the world of this scourge where ever possible on that particular dive. Ultimately, the DM needs to be showing the guests the experience they want (at least what is within his power to control) so if they aren't keen for a killing, he'll just have to put away his spear for another day.

Though I don't get the sense that the OP ever suggested otherwise, I am a firm believer that each buddy pair is ultimately responsible for themselves and that a DM's role is to guide his guests safely through a dive site given his knowledge about the site and his understanding of the capabilities of the divers he is guiding weighed against the existing conditions at the site. This does not mean DMs are there to babysit people and replace common sense and proper training. (I won't get into the times I've seen dive operators allow people to dive a site or dive in conditions that were clearly beyond the capability and training of a guest as this is a separate issue - let's assume for this argument that the DM / dive operator has appropriate processes in place to ensure that incapable / undertrained guests are not diving.)

We all know that there exists a belief out there for a number of people that DMs are underwater lifeguards. I don't know where the DM reliance comes from (maybe from the numerous lawsuits out there and from the same place where someone thought that they could sue McDonalds for handing them a hot cup of coffee). I think this view slowly goes away the more experience a person has - it certainly did for me, especially when I realised that DMs are not perfect and sometimes make stupid decisions, like the rest of us mortals.

The same discussion which ensures a DM has the full support of his dive group for his Lionfish Slaying could go a long way in addressing the DM as a Lifeguard misconception. The message needs to be said in plain speech and repeated over and over to get through the thick skulls out there. While it may be frustrating to many DMs (and many non-DMs for that matter) to have to state something that seems like motherhood and apple pie to them, it might eliminate a lot of pain if it was brought up prior to each dive. In effect, put up a "NO LIFEGUARD ON DUTY" sign - if it works on the beach / pool, it might work in the water.

I think clear discussions / disclosure like this should occur in any situation where there is a well-known existence of differing opinion (eg what is the role of the DM) or where what the DM is doing digresses notably from the common definition of a dive master / guide (or where there is no common understanding of a situation / plan)...

I am not a DM, I am not an expert, just a hobby diver, so I'm sure my opinion is based on incomplete information and fraught with reasons why it can't be implemented as simply as I state it, but maybe it at least provides a bit of food for thought....

In the meantime, here's a little video of mine about my own surprising encounter with a very friendly moray eel for your enjoyment. YouTube - Close Encounter with a Moray Eel

 

[Qnape]

Interestingly, I came across the following in a response to a review of LCBR on a well known website. It's a quote from the GM of LCBR but concerns all diving on the island:

"As a way of further ensuring that the safety of our diving guests is paramount, it was agreed at a community meeting that Little Cayman Dive Operators would no longer cull lionfish during supervised diving activities involving diving guests. A dive operator and its dive staff’s number one priority is diver safety, not lionfish culling while supervising divers. This agreed change in approach went into effect during the week of your visit and would explain why your dive staff ceased culling activities during your stay. Currently, the Little Cayman Community conducts weekly scheduled lionfish culling that takes place outside of the supervised diving activities of guests. "

The review is here: A Great Time But ... - Review of Little Cayman Beach Resort, Little Cayman - TripAdvisor

I'm sure that the local response to Lionfish (or other invasive species) will continue to evolve and vary from place to place. Cozumel may also come to the same conclusion (of course, there are a lot more people / opinions on Cozumel).

 

[jd950]

I apologize if this has been covered in this thread. I quit reading at about page 6 when the entire discussion focused on the issue of a CESA.

I am not a marine biologist but even I know that divers / DMs feeding dead lionfish to eels will not cause the eels to make an association with live lionfish and hunt them if they otherwise would not, anymore than feeding them hotdogs caused them to start looking for pigs or cattle. It will cause them to associate divers with food. I and others have said this before and it is pretty darn basic. If the DMs on Coz and elsewhere keep feeding eels, we will be reading more and more accounts of eels "harassing" divers for food. More people will be bitten or frightened by an overly inquisitive eel and then we will start hearing requests to kill the "aggressive" eels or the DMs will have to start going out of their way to keep divers away from the eels, and in either case, diving on Cozumel will change in a bad way and is unkind to the eels as well.

As Forrest Gump's mother would say, "stupid is as stupid does." Feeding the eels is stupid. Kill the lionfish, de-spine them and let them float or sink away, or take them up with you and eat them, or take em to the boat, cut them up and throw them in the water.

On a related note, as much as I am in favor of killing the lionfish, having DMs spend their time (paid for by vacationing clients) to cull lionfish is also a questionable idea. They are supposed to be keeping an eye on the divers, pointing out interesting things their clients might otherwise miss, and protecting the marine park from those divers who through lack of skill or bad behavior could cause harm. Cozumel dive ops can start offering lionfish culling dives for those interested in watching the activity, or have an additional DM go on dives as the "hunter" or pay DMs to cull lionfish as a second job, but it should not be the focus of guided dives in a marine park where diving with a guide is required.

 

[kellyaspen]

I have to agree with jd950 on the issue of DMs hunting lionfish while guiding tourist divers. In general, I'm conflicted about the issue of feeding them to eels. It's certainly not something I want to witness while diving--invasive species or not. I wouldn't want to be hiking and have my guide stop to shoot an animal, either. Read more on my blog post today and comment away! This is an interesting and important issue.