Enough Instruction???

[Pinecrest Jim]

Thanks for all the input. As far as what was not covered.....

Clear snorkel at surface.
Switch between snorkel & reg at surface (performed during dive in ocean).
50' surface swim with full gear on snorkel (performed during dive in ocean).
Remove mask & breathe underwater for 1 min.
Disconnect of BC LP hose underwater.
Adjust for proper weighting - eye level (we were all told 10% of body weight, period)
Remove weights at surface using quick release mechanism.
In deep water, remove all gear then exit.
Fin pivot demonstrating neutral bouyancy.
Demonstrate cramp removal technique.
Breathe effectively from free flowing reg for 30 sec.
Swim underwater w/o mask min of 50 feet, replace & clear mask.
Hover for 30 seconds using bouyancy control only.
Buddy breathe underwater using alt air source while swimming 50 ft.
Remove all gear & weights at surface in deep water.
Remove scuba unit on bottom in deep water.
Remove, replace & adjust weight belt on bottom in deep water.

We basically completed all the open water requirements.

Personally, I've read the PADI book twice and feel that some of these techniques could be skipped, as long as you are aware of them and practice on your own. Of course I have my own pool which many do not, and can and have practiced most of these drills on my own as well as with a buddy.

I did speak with a few others in the class, who were also of the opinion we were short-changed on pool instruction. Their response that we get what we pay for, and we paid the minimum amount charged for classes in the area. I know of two persons who had a very bad experience in the pool. I'm hoping they will complete the certification course.

My diving buddy has a friend who is a SSI instructor. He decided not to continue with the PADI instructor and finish up with the SSI course. He has received 8 hours pool instruction and did complete all these exercises.

Are all these drills really required for all students? Are self-learners somewhat of an exception?

As to reporting the instructor, I have very mixed feelings about that. I've met others who received their training, including advanced, rescue, & instructor from him and have nothing but praise. Am I being too critical?

Just wondering other's thoughts....

 

[BetterLateThannever]

I'm sorry folks, but Jim, I just have to say that if what you are saying is true, then report the guy; he's dangerous.

Even if you are a "self-learner", others may not be. I believe any instruction that your life may depend on should be geared towards the slowest in the class, not the quickest.

Not to mention the 10% weight rule sucks. Using that I would need to carry 29lbs of weight, <alright stop the snickering, I have "big bones'> . In fact, in warm water conditions I only use 10lbs to achieve neutral buoyancy. Quite a difference eh? Whereas if I am wearing neoprene I need to increase the weight.

Sheesh, this guy makes me mad. :fury:

 

[Warhammer]

That's pretty bad. The snorkel skills are the only ones on your list that I'd say aren't that big of a deal. The others like, breathing from a free-flowing reg and breathing underwater without a mask are paramount. Your life can and will at some point or another depend on them. I'd advise you to find a good instructor and retake the class. Then report this guy.

But alot of times you'll complete skills without knowing it. the instructor might for instance have you do something but not call attention to it and you may not relize you've done it. But there is no way you could have missed some of these that way.

 

[Mario S Caner]

There are no skills that are covered(or should be covered) in the confined water portion of the class that are "self-learned" they are all supposed to be covered by the instructor in very clearly defined steps.

Sadly, there has been a couple of instances on these boards that's come to our attention that someone whom is not Instructor qualified has been teaching courses. Have you or anyone else in the class asked to see this Jokers credentials? Does he have a C-Card identifing him as an instructor with a valid 'teaching status' decal on the back saying the card is in good standing?

Sounds to me like another DM playing Instructor.

The fact of the matter is that even if he is an Instructor, he has violated standards and should be reported.

In the US:
Brad Smith is the Manager of Training and Quality Management at PADI.
(800)729-7234 (949)858-7234 ext 224
brads@padi.com
30151 Tomas Rd
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA 92688
(949)858-7234

 

[Walter]

Mario,

That's possible, but it's more likely this is merely an incompetent instructor, they are pretty common.

WWW™

 

[Mario S Caner]

Walter, I agree 100%

 

[SubMariner]

If you and others in your class can so clearly document skills that were NOT covered in confined water, then the issue needs to be reported to PADI Quality Control.

Good PADI Instructors use "Aquatic Cue Cards" that clearly indicate what skills are covered in Confined and Open Water. These are supplimented by Standards that indicate things like how the skill should be performed, for how long, at what depth, etc.

There is some flexibility in Open Water skills: moving them from one dive to another'; but in Confined water this is not permitted. (The only exception are the float and the swim.)

Furthermore, in Confined Water a student MUST perform ALL the skills in that Module before being allowed to progress to the next one.

~SubMariner~

 

[neil]

Jim,
Some good advice from people here. Call PADI and report this instructor! If I have a motivated, physically fit, and academically prepared student, I can teach all the pool skills in about 5 hours. And THAT'S one on one. PADI requires that you assemble and disassemble your gear "5 or more times" during pool classes. Bet that didn't happen either. Good luck.
Neil

NAUI/PADI Instructor

 

[Pinecrest Jim]

Thanks, everyone, for your replies. I'm reluctant to report my instructor which I know will aggrevate all of you. This for several reasons, although they may not hold much water with the most of you.

First, I did get certified. I personally felt ready for the ocean dives. Others in the class did also, or so they told me. Granted, this does not excuse the fact that we did not do the required drills. Also, I did like the instructor and would like to dive with him in the future.

Decisions, decisions.

I have two friends who were taking the course with me. They did not complete the ocean dives as they were pretty much got scared from the pool experience, and knew they were not prepared. I'm hoping they will be able to get a refund of their fees and take the class from a different instructor.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

 

[Walter]

Jim,

I can certainly understand not wanting to cause problems for someone you like. Most of us are very reluctant to report the short comings of personable folks. You also feel like you got what you paid for and those who did not can get a refund, so you have no complaint. Perhaps you have not considered an important issue. If you do not learn what is necessary to dive you can [red]DIE[/red] while diving. Even if you did somehow (I personally believe you are deluding yourself) learn everything you needed there are others who didn't. Everyone who completes this inadequate course is in danger of [red]DYING[/red] as a result. This instructor will be to blame for any such deaths. Additionally, [red]YOU[/red] also bear some of the blame because you knew of the problem and did nothing to prevent it from continuing. I could not live with myself if I didn't do what I could to prevent needless deaths. Those of us who see problems are morally obligated to do what we can to correct them.

I hope you will reconsider your decision. Reporting this instructor could save lives. PADI needs to know about this so they can correct the situation.

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