Entanglement Experiences: Especially Both Hands/Arms.

[Nemrod]

Nemrod
How's it going? I was wondering how much weight you put in the belt and how you distribute it? Do you have any integrated? All my entanglement so far has not been from solo diving. Here you have to worry more about kelp than gill nets.

I wish I could answer your question but I cannot really suggest what you might need. You dive the cool Pacific waters probably with much heavier exposure protection than I would generally use. Also, I tend to dive various different rigs and gear in all sorts of configurations, I am just not very uniform to some invisible "gear" code. BUT, my standard rig, say using my 5/4 suit with 3 MM vest under, stainless Freedom Plate w/Mach V (or aluminum Hammerhead Plate), steel LP Faber 85 in saltwater I may run about ten/twelve pounds of lead. I may (may) put two to four of those pounds on my tank using an old camband as a mini tank weight belt and the rest is on an ordinary metal buckle weight belt. My other typical rig is the Freedom Plate with Mach V, no wet suit or a 1 MM Hennderson Microprene short and vest. This may put four pounds on a belt and no other weight. If I use an aluminum 80 then plus two to four pounds to that given for the Faber steel tank. When I dive an aluminum tank I do try to put the weight needed to make the tank negative on the tank or rig.

If I were diving a heavy 7 MM farmer john suit or a shell drysuit then I would be more interested in spreading the weight around. The idea whatever is done is that should for some reason you need to remove your rig you don't wind up floating like a balloon doing all sorts of gymnastics to hang on to your negative rig. Oh, you say, put some air in your wing when you doff it--lol--nope--then you and it rocket to the surface. I don't like that "balanced" word, the idea is to be able to maintain position in the water and in control of yourself and your doffed rig. To do that your going to have to have the majority of the weight on a belt or harness on you, not the rig.

So, the short answer that I use a weight belt for the majority of the weight I carry but there is no single answer, it has to work for you.

N

 

[uspap]

That answers it. Thanks. I would be a polaris missle if I lost my integrated rig. I like not having the feeling of a weight belt but I see the wisdom of your thinking.

 

[Thalassamania]

I dove the CA coast for several decades, I used either a 1/4" or 3/8" suit and somewhere between 24 and 36 lbs of weight. All my weight was always on a belt, though when it got above 28 lbs, or so, I usually used a harness of some sort.

I never found kelp to be a problem. When I started out, before I learned about taping my mask strap and fin strap (with springs on the fins and a slap strap the problem's are gone) I'd occasionally get caught for a moment with kelp on the buckles, but it was never a bid deal ... not like a gill net.

 

[uspap]

Thal
I agree. I've never had a big problem with kelp. I'm just more careful diving solo especially when it's a little surgey. I've done some pretty long kelp crawls while buddy diving at Point Lobos. I dive with a camera now and that makes it a little trickier. I have been caught by a fisherman at Monastery of all places. As far as tangled as the OP asked I could see someone doing that if they surfaced in the middle of a kelp bed and then spun around a few times. Thus becoming a spaghetti fork.

 

[Gene]

I solo cave dive a lot and I try my best to not get into an entanglement situation, although it has happened on rare occasions, usually when I was diving with someone. I find that when I dive solo I am extra aware and cautious. Not that I'm not normally, just more so, and thus with the exception of having a cave line caught in my fin once or twice it has not really been an issue. I have had to deal with a roll off about 1000 feet back in Cow Springs solo as well as having to really think about the best way to go, etc., while soloing in Little River's Harper Tunnel. I find it to be a fun challenge to not have any issues and stay off the floor and not leave any marks behind, etc.

 

[The Chairman]

It's not hard to doff and don a weight integrated BC, and you don't have to put yourself at risk. In fact, my students train in Zeagle Stilettos and must demonstrate being able to do this proficiently, safely and mid water to pass my class. Let physics help you out here: just keep your BC between you and the surface.

While face down, unbuckle all of your straps, disengage your left arm from your BC and then just roll out of your BC while keeping it on top of you. Now you are facing up, with the BC on your belly. Remove any entanglements and/or adjust your BC to your heart's content. When you are finished, start with your right hand and roll back into the BC (opposite of what you did before). Now, while you are facing down, put your left arm back into your BC and re-buckle it.

I have done this with a current, with a BC, with back plate and wings and without a mask and my eyes closed. With a little practice you will find this quite comfortable and easier than the traditional methods.

Thanks to Bill Crumbaugh from Divers Direct for showing me this method.

 

[Thalassamania]

It's not hard to doff and don a weight integrated BC, and you don't have to put yourself at risk. In fact, my students train in Zeagle Stilettos and must demonstrate being able to do this proficiently, safely and mid water to pass my class. Let physics help you out here: just keep your BC between you and the surface.

While face down, unbuckle all of your straps, disengage your left arm from your BC and then just roll out of your BC while keeping it on top of you. Now you are facing up, with the BC on your belly. Remove any entanglements and/or adjust your BC to your heart's content. When you are finished, start with your right hand and roll back into the BC (opposite of what you did before). Now, while you are facing down, put your left arm back into your BC and re-buckle it.

I have done this with a current, with a BC, with back plate and wings and without a mask and my eyes closed. With a little practice you will find this quite comfortable and easier than the traditional methods.

Thanks to Bill Crumbaugh from Divers Direct for showing me this method.

I rather doubt if you're doing that skill in full 7mm suits, which makes it a tad more problematical and while that's a cute skill and shows great poise as a diver, it's not going to help you if your valve and reg are caught in a gill net, you will not have the freedom of movement and will wind up even more ensnared.

 

[The Chairman]

I rather doubt if you're doing that skill in full 7mm suits, which makes it a tad more problematical and while that's a cute skill and shows great poise as a diver, it's not going to help you if your valve and reg are caught in a gill net, you will not have the freedom of movement and will wind up even more ensnared.

You're right Thal, I don't even OWN a 7mil. So I guess doing it in a dry suit with thermals on is the closest I have come. The way I execute it, you don't need to be cute or have much freedom of movement. In fact, you need LESS freedom of movement than if you did it the traditional way! If you need help in mastering this simple skill that my OW students can do, feel free to come on down for a lesson. It won't take you more than fifteen minutes to learn how to do it safely and effectively. Maybe we can teach an old dog new tricks!

At issue here is using physics to work FOR YOU and not against you. You do have to think and plan ahead, but using our deductive reasoning skills is so much more effective than using brute force, or sacrificing comfort because you have not learned how to do a simple task.

Unfortunately, too many people want to categorize gear that they don't care for as somehow being unsafe or "not optimal". Phooey! What is not right for you (or me) makes perfect sense for others. It appears to me that the number of weight integrated BCs available is increasing each and every year. So instead of avoiding the issue, I sought out and learned how to master this skill and consequently I pass it on to my students. I do not require them to do it in anything but the 3 mil that they use in their course. But, once you have the procedure down, you could wear just about ANY THICKNESS of wetsuit and get the same results.

 

[Thalassamania]

But in your rush to sarcasm you've ignored the gill net issue, you clearly do not understand the problem.

 

[jim T.]

Thalassamania,
If you would be willing, many here would like to hear some step by step procedure(s) that would be useful and successful with a backplate and Hog harness, 200 to 300 gram undies. I think most of us do our best to visualize what procedures we'd use/try with a net but I got some valuable insights from netdoc's post and would like to hear some procedure for nets in current, etc.

We can practice doff and dons all we want but it seems like it's pretty hard to truly practice for a net in current entanglement. (All that phantom knife slashing doesn't provide much definite
practice...in the mellow/shallow conditions I practice in.)

Anyone dealt with a gill net entanglement here who'd be willing to give us a step by step?

Thanks.