Force Fins "The ultimate fins" or are they?

[TN Traveler]

Something my Daddy taught me -

"Never get into a wrestling match with a pig in his pen:

1) You are guaranteed to get filthy

2) You can't win

3) And the pig loves it"

 

[RonFrank]

RONFRANK, I wish, I could control the price of Oil. Last year we were hit with a 50% price increase. The Cast Urethane material that we use is like pouring liquid gold. Remember most dive fins cost about $7.50 to make. Using PVC or EVA or other tupper ware plastics help give those big margins. I am more interested in building real USA hard core fins. I am concerned with the comfort factor with your Force Fins, maybe the wrong size or you might have a high instep. Yes rubber is some what forgiving over Urethane, but maybe the comfort instep will help. Be glad to send you my used comfort insteps to see if this helps. Best Bob

Hey, you do what you need to do. I appreciate the fact that you make a cool and unique product, and are still in business.

But Oil should NOT a factor now. I recently paid $1.25 for a gallon of gas. Unfortunately it is up to $1.56, here in CO, but that is a far cry from $4 a gallon. So WHY OR WHY are not the prices of things coming down? Not just fins...

I appreciate the offer of the insteps. I have them, but unfortunately my L size should be XL. This is my problem, and I am not looking for handouts. However if anyone wants to send me a few million, I'm open to suggestions!

 

[W8less]

I am an end user, no manufacturer or distribution connections.

I have to throw a plug at whoever designed the newer Hollis Fins. In 40 years that is the best fin (for me) that I have ever used. Propulsion/power/frog/back/helicopters it performed well with no leg fatigue. It is a bit heavier fin than I had been using so it enabled me to get rid of the ankle weights.

I gave the force fin a fair trial and did not like:

It does not have a side rail so it cut through the water (like sculling) side to side on a power stroke. Maybe a lot of reps would change that opinion, but like it's said "You only make a first impression once.
I also did not like how slippery the material was. A lot of our Puget Sound walk in dives are on slick cobbles. Standing up at the end of a dive in the shallows, I felt like I was on wet uneven ice.

I do appreciate that fact that the FF,s are American made and production costs are controlled by OPEC but they did seem to be a little bit pricey for me.

 

[jlovold]

About ForceFins and slipperyness, Bob should make a version of the Pro with a rubber-sole, as they are almost perfect for underwater work on the seabed such as drilling, but has proven to be very slippery, both on land (very much so in snow), and under water...

 

[meesier42]

About ForceFins and slipperyness, Bob should make a version of the Pro with a rubber-sole, as they are almost perfect for underwater work on the seabed such as drilling, but has proven to be very slippery, both on land (very much so in snow), and under water...

Try the SD-1 Miltary, it has a heavy marine felt pad similar to the shoes that fly fishermen wear on the bottom specifically to address this issue. I'll try to get a photo of it for you

 

[marchand]

I have studied and learned from GUE and WKPP, and it sounds like you need to take a refresher on what the "requirements" are, as ForceFins are actually 100% compliant, and Yes, I have verified that through the president of the GUE organization. ...and yes, I have pushed more gear than you can ever imagine using my ForceFins, and did so more effortlessly than the guys next to me wearing their jets, enough so that many of them have bought ForceFins.

But that is not the point, when some of the most respected divers known to our little microcossism use ForceFin, there is a reason for it.

To drop names.
Jean-Micheal Cousteau
Dr. Phil Nuytten
John Chatterton
Dr. Sylvia Earle
and the list goes on and on.

ForceFins, as the "ultimate fins", as I said many post ago, I don't think there is such a thing. They are very good fins, certainly some of the best for recreational scuba diving. So for me, they are the ultimate fins, but for some, they are not.

So I talked to JJ yesterday, and no, jets are not required, but the only model of force fin that is acceptable is the accelerator (read, $400) because it is the only one that can really do a frog kick well. And I was looking at the force fin website and it has what some would call BS on it. "fin of choice for cave divers." That, ladies and gentlemen, is what is known as BS. The fin of choice for cave divers is still the jet fin for a number of reasons:

Cheap!
spring straps
very negative in the water
durable
CHEAP!
powerful
short (so when you are going though, say, the rifts in telford you can still frog kick)
rubber (read, low impact on the cave and CHEAP)
useable with any kicking technique
easy to repair
alot of foot protection

So far, the only pro that I have seen for using force fins it that they are more powerful, so lets look at the cons:

EXPENSIVE!!!!!!
a joke of a warenty
very limited set of kicks unless they are the REALLY EXPENSIVE ones
high impact because of the stiffer material
EXPENSIVE (I mean, who in their right mind would pay even $200 (thats the cheapest one) for fins?)
no spring straps (come on; really? why no spring straps? I paid less than $100 for my current pair of BRAND NEW fins and that included spring straps)
from the pictures they look really long ((at least the ones "made" for the frog kick do) so if you are swimming through the rifts you cant frog kick anymore)
offer very limited foot protection
I hear the material is very slick so your typical duct tape and aquaseal repair won't work too good.
not very negative (floaty feet)

Alright, I think I have made my poin that the COST:benifit ratio looks just like that; the COST is much bigger than the benifit.

For the record, I currently use XL dive rite fins when diving dry and M-L cressi frogs with home made spring straps when diving wet. I've had the frogs for over four years now and I have hundreds of dives on them, they are great fins and CHEAP too. I just recently got the dive rites (brand new for less than $100 and that is with spring straps) because I needed a pair of fins that fit the boots on the new dry suit. Guess what the decision was based on. The fact that the fins fit my dry boots better than anything else.

I almost forgot, I did'nt recognize any of the names you "droped" save the last name Cousteau. Guess I can't respect them if I don't know who they are, sorry.

How about some divers that I do repect.

Rich Courtney
Bill Main
Jared Jablonski
Brett Hemphill
Corey Mearns
Sheck Exley
Wes Skiles
Jill Hienerth
Woody Jasper
Lamar Hires

And that's only off the top of my head, and most of them use(d) jet fins.

 

[mongodives]

As a FF owner, user I think that a great deal of the nay sayers just haven't tried them, or have tried a model that doesn't work well for their technique or dive environment.

The SD-1 Military that I have fit exactly what I was looking for, a fin that would fit the wide variety of foot wear I use depending on location and conditions. Yes, they are an %$#kicker on surface swims, but I only paid for 1 set of fins that for 95% of my diving are comfortable.
They also don't increase the discomfort I have from hardware in my feet and legs, unlike every other fin I've owned.

 

[tridacna]

o
And that's only off the top of my head, and most of them use(d) jet fins.

 

[sambolino44]

I guess I just don't understand the negative vibes. I mean, I tried Force Fins, I liked 'em, I bought 'em. True, they aren't cheap, but I'm comfortable with the amount I paid vs. what I got; in other words, value. And since I like them, I encourage other people to try them. That's all; if you don't like them, don't buy them.

But I don't go around bad-mouthing Jet fins, or anything else. I just don't understand why some people seem to be on this mission to make sure nobody wastes their money on Force Fins. Relax, will ya?

Well, maybe I take that back, because obviously I enjoy the theatrics in threads like this.

But really, the fins work for me, better than any others I've tried. And the more I've learned about Bob and Susanne and Blair and the others, and how they run their business, the more I want to support their efforts to innovate, buck the establishment, put out a good product, and keep jobs and manufacturing here in the U.S.

I may try to persuade my friends to try Force Fins, but you won't see me bad-mouthing Jet fins on this board.

 

[CNicoll]

I'm with Sambolino44 on this. If you don't like some equipment, don't buy it. If you tried it and it failed for some reason, poor quality, design, etc, then sharing that experience here is helpful. But trashing gear because you don't like it is of limited value.

And Marchand, you have not even tried them on and you are trashing them? Come on. At least put them on your feet so you are talking from experience, and not from a picture or a website, eh?

I tried the Force Fins myself on a demo dive. I thought they worked really well for how I dove (not much frog kicking), were pretty comfortable, and WAY out of my price range. I'd take them if someone gave them to be, but don't see me dropping my cash on them anytime soon.

Good diving folks.