Gear dependancy and additional training

[Air On]

Maybe this analogy will help.

Gear is nothing more than tools. Tools that allow us to dive.
If you have a flat tire and you need to put on the spare. However, the only tools you have are the ones that came with your car.
You are an excellent mechanic as a profession and remove and install wheels everyday with the aid of hydraulic hoists and air powered impact wrenchs. Are you less capable of changing the tire with hand tools? No.

Turning this around, you have the same flat and but have no idea how to change the tire, is the problem your available tools? No.

Actually the DIR method would insist that everyone drive the same car and have exactly the same cloths... same tires, etc. Or you wouldn't be allowed to drive.

The training side of DIR would insist that you know how to be a master mechanic and be able to fully take the car appart and rebuild it. Not just know how to change the tire. Is it reasonable to expect EVERYONE to know everything about a car before they are allowed to drive one? I dare say most people do NOT even have a basic understanding of their car. Especialy these days.

Granted it would also insist that you had no air bags, emission controls or any of these equipment dependant items... Even turn signals might be considered too much equipment. After all hand signals are much more reliable.

Then again... It almost sounds like describing a communist or socialist country?

I'm teasing a bit here, but still.

If your talking about a pro dive team or some specialised technical diver or even military... fine the more similar the quipment the better. As a recreational diver use what you like that works that you know how to use.

Your basic training should cover how to change a tire... or at least how to call road side assistance. It shouldn't tell you your only allowed to drive one model and one color of car. You should still be able to drive a truck a car or even a small van without too much drama.

Don't agree? Funny thats the thing about free will. Its MY choice not yours.

Training is great... but its not a complete substitute for experience of doing.

 

[D_B]

I think it would help many of us to understand you if you tell us you are going to use the term "overweighted" to be the same as "negitive buoyancy" .. I'm not sure that anyone else does so

 

[Slonda828]

Actually the DIR method would insist that everyone drive the same car and have exactly the same cloths... same tires, etc. Or you wouldn't be allowed to drive.

The training side of DIR would insist that you know how to be a master mechanic and be able to fully take the car appart and rebuild it. Not just know how to change the tire. Is it reasonable to expect EVERYONE to know everything about a car before they are allowed to drive one? I dare say most people do NOT even have a basic understanding of their car. Especialy these days.

Granted it would also insist that you had no air bags, emission controls or any of these equipment dependant items... Even turn signals might be considered too much equipment. After all hand signals are much more reliable.

Then again... It almost sounds like describing a communist or socialist country?

I'm teasing a bit here, but still.

If your talking about a pro dive team or some specialised technical diver or even military... fine the more similar the quipment the better. As a recreational diver use what you like that works that you know how to use.

Your basic training should cover how to change a tire... or at least how to call road side assistance. It shouldn't tell you your only allowed to drive one model and one color of car. You should still be able to drive a truck a car or even a small van without too much drama.

Don't agree? Funny thats the thing about free will. Its MY choice not yours.

Training is great... but its not a complete substitute for experience of doing.

I think you are taking Teamcasa out of context. He is merely saying that before using equipment that makes your life easier (hence dulling your skills), you should know and practice the basics. As an English teacher, I am supposed to know grammatical rules. I have a teacher's edition that has everything spelled out for me. It is then reasonable to gather that if I never use my own knowledge, and refer only to my instructor's guide, that my memorized and perfected rules of grammar (the ones in my head) will become less sharp unless I use them. That's simply human nature.

I think what casa is saying is that just because you have impact tools doesn't mean you shouldn't know how to change a flat with the scissor jack that came with your car. He also didn't say anything about what you mentioned in your reply to his post.

Furthermore, training is simulated doing. You train for war because you cannot go out (unless you're G.W.B.) and start one for no reason. Training in diving simulates situations that you typically cannot or should not replicate. Now, if you want to go out in the ocean, cut your weight belt, turn off your gas, and lay flat on your back (face up) to experience a buoyant emergency ascent, please do so. Let me know how that works out for you.

 

[catchaser]

"IF" buoyancy control was taught as part of the OW curriculum or at least in AOW instead of just being glossed over, we wouldn't hear as much about DIR as we do now. IMHO the reason so many are so passionate about DIR is that fundies is where they first really learned buoyancy control. They in turn also think that the gear change really did the trick when in reality they just learned to dive properly.

Good diving skills and good buoyancy control are completely gear independent!

 

[b1gcountry]

I am sorry, I am sitting here drawing out forces, you body is inclined to your direction of travel 60 degrees, and you are maintaining depth and yet your fin thrust is purely directed 180 degrees to your path? Now, explain that some more to me? Just curious, in this odd propulsion method, when you quit kicking, what happens?

N

Casey McKinley is one of the WKPP yukity-yuks. He's done more deep cave penetrations than anyone I will ever dive with. His normal trim is about 25* off from the horizontal. His head is slightly up, and his body from his chest to his knees is in a straight line 25* off from his direction of travel. His knees are bent, and his fins are pointed backwards. When he kicks, his fins are directed backwards, so his thrust is directed backwards. He still has perfect buoyancy, so between kicks, there is no change in depth, and he can hover motionless at will.

The point being the force from your fin kick is directed based on the orientation of your kick, not that of your body. The body is just resistance. If you develop a good bent knee frog kick, you can execute it in just about any orientation, even vertically, like Uncle Pug apparently can!

Tom

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Actually the DIR method would insist that everyone drive the same car and have exactly the same cloths... same tires, etc. Or you wouldn't be allowed to drive.

The training side of DIR would insist that you know how to be a master mechanic and be able to fully take the car appart and rebuild it. Not just know how to change the tire. Is it reasonable to expect EVERYONE to know everything about a car before they are allowed to drive one? I dare say most people do NOT even have a basic understanding of their car. Especialy these days.

Granted it would also insist that you had no air bags, emission controls or any of these equipment dependant items... Even turn signals might be considered too much equipment. After all hand signals are much more reliable.

Then again... It almost sounds like describing a communist or socialist country?

I'm teasing a bit here, but still.

If your talking about a pro dive team or some specialised technical diver or even military... fine the more similar the quipment the better. As a recreational diver use what you like that works that you know how to use.

Your basic training should cover how to change a tire... or at least how to call road side assistance. It shouldn't tell you your only allowed to drive one model and one color of car. You should still be able to drive a truck a car or even a small van without too much drama.

Don't agree? Funny thats the thing about free will. Its MY choice not yours.

Training is great... but its not a complete substitute for experience of doing.

Uh huh ... and exactly how much to you actually know about DIR?

Not much, apparently.

I sure wish people would confine their commentary to subjects about which they are at least passingly familiar ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The point being the force from your fin kick is directed based on the orientation of your kick, not that of your body. The body is just resistance. If you develop a good bent knee frog kick, you can execute it in just about any orientation, even horizontally, like Uncle Pug apparently can!

Tom

Those of us who dive with Uncle Pug have seen him propel himself in any direction he desires from any orientation he happens to be in. Watching him move himself about in three dimensions while maintaining a perfectly inverted, head-down orientation, is a thing of beauty ... and something to aspire to.

Excellent control comes from understanding how to use what you have to achieve the desired results ... and from hours of actually practicing how to do it. Just diving time won't get you there ... you have to make a conscious effort to learn and execute the skill ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ligersandtions]

LOL, uh, you go ahead and think that. Is that the DIR seahorse kick, what kind of fins you need for that trick? I don't think so.

Strange kicking methods aside, if you are moving through the water inclined to your direction of travel you have several complications, your body will generate some lift since the path is at an angle to the plane of the body.

I am sorry, I am sitting here drawing out forces, you body is inclined to your direction of travel 60 degrees, and you are maintaining depth and yet your fin thrust is purely directed 180 degrees to your path? Now, explain that some more to me? Just curious, in this odd propulsion method, when you quit kicking, what happens?
N

Hover motionlessly at the same depth I was originally kicking....why, what happens when you stop kicking?

 

[JeffG]

Uh huh ... and exactly how much to you actually know about DIR?

Not much, apparently.

LOL

I sure wish people would confine their commentary to subjects about which they are at least passingly familiar ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Where would the fun be in that?

 

[Gombessa]

Actually the DIR method would insist that everyone drive the same car and have exactly the same cloths... same tires, etc. Or you wouldn't be allowed to drive.

The training side of DIR would insist that you know how to be a master mechanic and be able to fully take the car appart and rebuild it. Not just know how to change the tire. Is it reasonable to expect EVERYONE to know everything about a car before they are allowed to drive one? I dare say most people do NOT even have a basic understanding of their car. Especialy these days.

Granted it would also insist that you had no air bags, emission controls or any of these equipment dependant items... Even turn signals might be considered too much equipment. After all hand signals are much more reliable.

I don't think regular driving makes a good analogy to DIR, since there's already a high degree of standardization and governing rules that control your behavior whenever you get into a car. If you learn more about what DIR is about, I think you'll find that driving is a lot more DIR than not.

It would be closer to say that everyone should follow speed limits, have 3 functioning brake lights and a spare tire, signal at every turn, not adorn their ride with spinners, 2-ft high spoilers and big fuzzy dice, etc. And maybe know how to get to their destination and generally how long it will take, and not depend solely on their GPS to get them there - Driver follows GPS into lake - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation).

In short, it may sound a bit prescriptive, but it's not the wacky, make-no-sense wheeled carnival you seem to think it is.