groupthink

[freewillie]

IME, a knowledgable SCUBA diver often knows more about diving-related medical issues - at least the more common ones - than a run-of-the-mill GP medical doctor. As an example, I doubt if my doctor has ever heard about hyperbaric vertigo...
--
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Typos are a feature, not a bug

Sort of my point. Vertigo is vertigo. There is an underlying abnormality of the inner ear. The actual cause is somewhat irrelevant since the actual symptoms are still the same and the actual treatment is still the same. A layperson might want to make the distinction of diving barotrauma or maybe viral or actually even motion sickness. But if you understand inner ear physiology it is still vertigo and the therapy is still the same regardless of the cause.

A scuba diver might have more experience in seeing a person with some minor medical issues and might have seen more ways to treat certain conditions. But to my point the actual understanding of what is happening and what should be done is not there. In my experience when a patient has a certain symptom then they tend to attribute any other person's similar symptoms to their own experiences. They may or may not be the same situations medically.

For example, if person A experiences "chest pain" and then gets diagnosed as having heartburn, then when somebody says "I'm having chest pain" person A may respond, "oh, that's heartburn. My doctor gave me Prilosec so you should try some too." Person B has "chest pain" goes to the doctor and gets diagnosed with heart disease and gets an angiogram and stent. Person B has somebody say, "I'm having chest pain" to which Person B says, " that's heart disease. You have to call your doctor tomorrow because you'll have a heart attack if you don't."

That's kinda what I see here on Scubaboard when some people answer medical questions. At least from my perspective actually having a medical degree as an MD.

 

[mselenaous]

Awesome!

Read and talk and research, but make your own choices. Find your own level of risk-management comfort.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Groupthink:

Psychologist Irving Janis' original definition of the term was "a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' strivings for unanimity override their motivation to realistically appraise alternative courses of action."

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/dir/401853-why-we-so-mean-13.html#post6124719

 

[markmud]

Oh dear. It’s so easy to offend the groupthink that is frequently seen here on ScubaBoard.

I don’t think BP/Ws are the godsend a vocal minority would have you believe. Nor do I think long hoses are needed for recreational divers, or PADI sucks, or that Spare Air is odious. I almost always wear my snorkel, and usually use Force Fins but sometimes Morfins or splits or paddles. I’m against MOF (but not for the panic illogic). I don’t care if your or my snorkel and/or mask has a purge. Also don’t care if you or I dive BP/W, poodle, vintage, sidemount, or whatever. Or if you donate your primary and/or use a combination LPI/alternate.

The structure of GUE or DIR or “team” diving are fine for those who want it or whose personality goes that way, but just aren’t everyone’s cup of tea, especially if all you’re doing are benign recreational dives. I don’t care if you use rock bottom, or the rule of thirds, or only monitor your gauge. Just be safe.

I don’t care (much) if you call fins flippers, or a mask goggles, or a cylinder a tank or bottle. Or even if you say two-tank dive when you mean two dives, not a dive with doubles.

And no, you don’t need tables to learn decompression theory.

These all have their pros and cons, and are personal preferences, or options, or opinions. Just because an opinion is repeated ad nauseam and with emphasis doesn’t make it right. It’s still just an opinion.

Why won’t more people think for themselves? Read and talk and research, but make your own choices. Find your own level of risk-management comfort.
Groupthink can evolve into political correctness which is another term for intellectual bullying, except that it’s often not very intellectual, and frequently more sheep-like than bullish. baaaaa

Get over me. Get over yourselves.
I cherish your right to your opinion, however misguided. < wink >
Suggest, explain, even cajole, but don’t try to force your opinions on me.

Let’s just enjoy our amazing sport (or activity if you prefer).

< rambling rant over > < unless I missed a sacred cow >

Hey knotical,

You nailed it!

markm

 

[drrich2]

People often like to gather info. from a range of sources, which can be helpful if they then see a Physician. Particularly since a number of Physicians are busy and most won't be knowledgable about scuba-related medicine specifically.

As for people in a community 'pushing a shared dogma,' so to speak, that comes out on a range of topics in forums, not just scuba. Given that newbies often solicit advice, and seasoned posters are trying to help them, it can be legitimate. I think objections arise when people ridicule what they consider suboptimal - jacket BCD vs. BP/W, split fins vs. paddle, or dislike as a 'crutch' enabling deviation from how they think recreational diving ought to be - relying on your computer for NDL's without using tables, following the guide on vacation dives without doing your own navigating.

Respectfully faithfully advocating for what you believe without insulting others can be something of an art at times.

Richard.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

All the boards that I've seen and followed for a short time that were all of the same mindset (groupthink) seem to stagnate out and become boring. Nobody argues, nobody gets offended, if you are offensive to the general guidlines you are removed or thrown off.
Those boards may start off gangbusters but after peopole discuss everything there is to discuss they soon realize there is nothing new so they move on.

That's why I like it here, even though it's rediculous at times, because there are so many view points and we have our share of fun pokers and trouble makers.
I think it's healthy. Boredom is one of the worst poisons for the soul.

Maybe I'm sick in the head, but I love all the wars so very much.

DIR wars
Snorkel wars
Air2 vs octo
Split vs paddle
long hose vs regular
Can light vs hand held
BP/W vs poodle
Warm water vs cold water
Dry vs wet
Vintage vs modern
Weightbelt vs weight pockets

I just love it all. Heck, sometimes I'll even pick a viewpoint that I don't particularly care about just so I can argue and have fun! Do I mean it? no not really. I know who I am, I dive with the people I dive with, this here is just pure entertainment for me.

In all reality, this is ONLY the internet, it's NOT the real world.
Get over yourselves.

 

[aquacat8]

What's MOF?


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[knotical]

What's MOF?


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Sorry. MOF = Mask on Forehead. Debated endlessly elsewhere on ScubaBaord as a possible sign of panic / risk of mask loss in a wave / or personal preference / or ...

Also defined in the acronym list reachable by clicking on the link in my signature below.

 

[aquacat8]

Oh, Funny! Anyway I liked your post... It made me think of one of my early instructors who was also a dive shop manager who often got stuck donating pieces of his own gear to forgetful clients. It seemed like the guy could dive with ANYTHING missing, possibly had gills LOL.

 

[markmud]

People often like to gather info. from a range of sources, which can be helpful if they then see a Physician. Particularly since a number of Physicians are busy and most won't be knowledgable about scuba-related medicine specifically.

As for people in a community 'pushing a shared dogma,' so to speak, that comes out on a range of topics in forums, not just scuba. Given that newbies often solicit advice, and seasoned posters are trying to help them, it can be legitimate. I think objections arise when people ridicule what they consider suboptimal - jacket BCD vs. BP/W, split fins vs. paddle, or dislike as a 'crutch' enabling deviation from how they think recreational diving ought to be - relying on your computer for NDL's without using tables, following the guide on vacation dives without doing your own navigating.

Respectfully faithfully advocating for what you believe without insulting others can be something of an art at times.

Richard.

Hey Richard,

I disagree with your last sentence. Disagreeing can be pleasant for both parties as long a one party does not become personal or demeaning.

Why is it so hard ("...an art at times...") to ask a poster questions about their statements?

Can a person ask for a clarification?

Is it so difficult to read back your post and make sure you are not guilty of rationalizing and projecting your concept of diving on someone else? (A general statement that is not directed at anything Richard wrote)

A psychological moratorium or a personality moratorium both require counseling. One is a disorder where one's dogmatic beliefs become a jihad against all non-believers. The other disorder is sometimes referred to, by a few, as the "big Herman" syndrome--"It's my way or the highway, because my way works for me."

A good boss sets the goal and the strategy. He/she then lets the subordinate create the tactics.

Our "wars" seem to be over personal tactical decisions.

Back to your point...was I a jerk, disagreeable, bombastic, or civilized in responding to your point?

thanks,

markm

---------- Post added June 12th, 2014 at 05:38 PM ----------

Sorry. MOF = Mask on Forehead. Debated endlessly elsewhere on ScubaBaord as a possible sign of panic / risk of mask loss in a wave / or personal preference / or ...

Also defined in the acronym list reachable by clicking on the link in my signature below.

Hey knotical,

Oh no, I am a MOF!

I do that. Is there really a PADI police force that will write me a ticket? HA HA!

I am such a .

markm