GUE & Halcyon Gear

[Primary]

I took fundies almost 20 years ago back when EMT shears and a "stroke pile" kicked off the class (things were much more fun back then). There was no pass or tech pass and pretty much everybody "failed". JJ was my fundies instructor and I showed up in a 5 mil wetsuit wearing blue Mares Quattros that I had equipped with homemade spring straps made from wire, screen door closer springs and heat shrink tubing I found on the cave diving aisle in Home Depot. I had two bright yellow UK SL4s bungied to my harness in the same location they had their rat lights. I figured my MacGyver'd rec gear was just as good as their fancy cave diving gear.

Video review (shot by Marc Singer) was in a suite (lol) at the Nottoway Motel near Lake Rawlings quarry (now Lake Phoenix) in VA. My DIRF was MHK's IDC and Dave Sweetin and Chris Elmore (RIP) were also assisting with the class.

Anyway, even back then when DIR folks were known for being, uh, less accommodating than they are now I don't remember anybody beating anybody up over gear selection. It was very much an open discussion about all the gear everybody had in class and what works in certain situations and what might not. I'd just show up for the class in whatever you have and make the best of it.

Me in my blue fins at fundies:

View attachment 581200

I took fundamentals and Tech 1 in the same era (fundamentals was a "workshop" and the course guide was photocopied). There wasn't any hard sell on brands but, especially in fundamentals, there was a fair amount of time spent on what featues are important in each piece of equipment, as you would expect.

Of course, halcyon gear (mostly it was just backplates, wings and lights back then) had all the features to look for and there was some peer pressure to have the "correct" brand but any gear purchases were purely consensual

However, both my instructors were eventually kicked out/dropped out for not being "true believers" so perhaps that was a factor.

All i can say was the training was good and the gear was decent.

Interesting to note that Apeks were the "preferred" regulators back then and the Scubapro brand, while not a deal breaker by any means, was definitely a second choice. I guess that's all changed

 

[EireDiver606]

I have more halcyon gear than most. For me, I feel that it is the “best”.

AJ, I didn’t say it’s not the best or disagree with you.

I said we don’t buy it because we want to be seen as buying in the “idea” of “the best”.
It’s just very good quality gear.

Don’t buy it because of what you think, buy it because it works reliably.

 

[ToneNQ]

If the price is right, get it, and use the saved cash for the next bit of gear. Second hand gear is great too. You can service regs, put new bladders in wings, run a new length of webbing through a backplate. A lot of core tech gear is so absurdly similar that in a blind test I don't think you'd tell the difference. Halcyon make great gear, you won't be disappointed, but its not worth paying overs.

I dived with a guide last year, Halycon harness and wing, Halcyon canister light, Santi drysuit, his regs and fins were Apeks. We were on the boat with Hollis and Diverite harnesses/wings; Apeks, Hollis and SF regs; Bare, Hollis and Fourth Element suits; a variety of handheld LED lights (no canisters), etc. The only thing we all had in common was Shearwater.

 

[rjack321]

A typical distinction though is the "minimum price" is usually just the advertised price, not the actual sale price. So if you go in their shop and say "Hey, can you give me this for X amount" they are typically free to say yes regardless of what the price is. You just can't publicize the fact that you are selling it for that price.

No Halcyon dealer is going to risk his/her dealership rights to cut you a deal. They have minimums and they are not happy when dealers compete on price with one another. They can wheel and deal on packages that include non-H stuff like a drysuit, drysuit orientation, doubles orientation, or even GUE-F

 

[rjack321]

I took fundies almost 20 years ago back when EMT shears and a "stroke pile" kicked off the class (things were much more fun back then). There was no pass or tech pass and pretty much everybody "failed". JJ was my fundies instructor and I showed up in a 5 mil wetsuit wearing blue Mares Quattros that I had equipped with homemade spring straps made from wire, screen door closer springs and heat shrink tubing I found on the cave diving aisle in Home Depot. I had two bright yellow UK SL4s bungied to my harness in the same location they had their rat lights. I figured my MacGyver'd rec gear was just as good as their fancy cave diving gear.

Video review (shot by Marc Singer) was in a suite (lol) at the Nottoway Motel near Lake Rawlings quarry (now Lake Phoenix) in VA. My DIRF was MHK's IDC and Dave Sweetin and Chris Elmore (RIP) were also assisting with the class.

Anyway, even back then when DIR folks were known for being, uh, less accommodating than they are now I don't remember anybody beating anybody up over gear selection. It was very much an open discussion about all the gear everybody had in class and what works in certain situations and what might not. I'd just show up for the class in whatever you have and make the best of it.

Me in my blue fins at fundies:

View attachment 581200

Mine was the same era, 2003 I think.

I owned zero H gear and nobody complained or gave me a hard time, despite this being GI3's heyday. I was actually loaned a BP/W after day 1 of the course because I showed up in a jacket (I think? I dont remember and the video was destroyed)

 

[seeker242]

No Halcyon dealer is going to risk his/her dealership rights to cut you a deal. They have minimums and they are not happy when dealers compete on price with one another. They can wheel and deal on packages that include non-H stuff like a drysuit, drysuit orientation, doubles orientation, or even GUE-F

You're missing the point. The point was that the typical retailer restriction is called "MAP Pricing", which does not prohibit the retailer from selling it for a lower price than the minimum price. The restriction is on making offers for a lower price to the public. The guy cutting you a deal is not an offer and does not violate MAP pricing. As soon as a manufacturer starts setting fixed prices, they begin flirting with illegality, which is why most, if not all, don't. Resale price maintenance (RPM) was entirely illegal in the US up until 2007 when the supreme court ruled that MAP is not illegal. Furthermore, several US states still consider some RPM to be illegal. Since Halcyon sells inside those states, it's highly unlikely that Halcyon does not use MAP pricing policy.

 

[O-ring]

Mine was the same era, 2003 I think.

I owned zero H gear and nobody complained or gave me a hard time, despite this being GI3's heyday. I was actually loaned a BP/W after day 1 of the course because I showed up in a jacket (I think? I dont remember and the video was destroyed)

I hope the video from mine was destroyed. MHK said my s-drill looked like WWII dog fighting. I had forgotten about the equipment loaning thing, but that happened to me as well. They didn't throw me under the bus for my Home Depot fins, but did offer to trade with me after I had tried the skills in mine just to see if I thought jetfins worked better for the fin kicks they were teaching us.

 

[nadwidny]

MHK. That's a handle I haven't heard in a while. I remember when he was so anti-DIR then met up and dove with someone ( probably Jammer6 from rec.scuba?) and his whole attitude turned 180. Fun days on the internets back then...fun days.

And for what it's worth I did Cave 1 and 2 in a Scott Koplin backplate with AGIR wing. Nobody said nothing.

 

[rjack321]

You're missing the point. The point was that the typical retailer restriction is called "MAP Pricing", which does not prohibit the retailer from selling it for a lower price than the minimum price. The restriction is on making offers for a lower price to the public. The guy cutting you a deal is not an offer and does not violate MAP pricing. As soon as a manufacturer starts setting fixed prices, they begin flirting with illegality, which is why most, if not all, don't. Resale price maintenance (RPM) was entirely illegal in the US up until 2007 when the supreme court ruled that MAP is not illegal. Furthermore, several US states still consider some RPM to be illegal. Since Halcyon sells inside those states, it's highly unlikely that Halcyon does not use MAP pricing policy.

It has zero to do with what is "legal"

No Halycon dealer is going to put their dealership in jeopardy by offering non-factory authorized deals on H gear. Because H doesnt need a cause to revoke their dealership at all. Not looking like a team player? You're gone.

 

[Ayisha]

The H is expensive, but I'll also give them credit for making a short backplate available. It's made a huge difference in my diving. Worth every penny of the $225 (bought in late 2018), higher now.

Yes, agreed. When my LDS ordered my small Halcyon Infinity, it was a prototype, and I had to wait for it to start being produced and come in June 2011. At the time, I only knew of one other short bp that was highly recommended, which was a DSS. My Infinity with the STA weight and all accessories cost $880 CDN total including tax, but cost hundreds more than the other bp/w's available. Within months, the same LDS was selling it for hundreds more and more now. Of course, I stripped the Infinity down to just the Eclipse more and more until all the extra that was left was the back pad, which I still keep.

I love the small Halcyon bp/w. I actually think the wing should also be shorter and/or have multiple attachment points, but they have partially solved that issue by offering a shorter wing with less lift instead.

For the OP: The required gear in a GUE Fundies class just has to be philosophy compliant, not brand compliant. GUE instructors will recommend Halycon gear, but as long as the gear meets the requirements, it's fine. I have seen people do fundies in an xDeep bp/w, and I recall they had to switch out the crotch strap (not sure if anything else), but they did it and all was fine. I did Fundies in my UTD (owned by former GUE Instructor AG) Precision Neutral fins that had just come out and the GUE instructors definitely eyed my fins but didn't say a word.