I would say if you have to choose one, tanto style is probably as close to ideal as you can get.salg:
H-1 Dive tools - Need help
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wilkie
Contributor
Asking for opinions of this nature, may be like asking a fireman for a "drink" from the fire hose, but - you asked for it.
I think that a primary "dive" knife should be usefull top side as well. Blade type - full tang. Length around 4", I prefer a short ogive spear point, but there are many opinions here.
Primary edge - plain, and full length sharpened. Secondary edge (from the point back) first 1" - full thickness - no false edge grind, line cutter, spyder edge back to handle.
Handle - Self (none), useable with either edge in primary orientation, three sizes, S M L
Sheath - moulded Krydex, drain holes, practical attachment options for hose mount, bc mount, weight belt, leg strap.
Love to see a small "harpy" in H-1, for use in the too politically correct " no knife" places, since I'm dreaming here, mircarta scales would be great, and a high mounted "wire" retaining clip would let a small knife like this vanish into a cumberbund
Also would like to see the old Spyderco "Probe", and "Mini Probe" in H-1 (with a propper sheath)
I think that a primary "dive" knife should be usefull top side as well. Blade type - full tang. Length around 4", I prefer a short ogive spear point, but there are many opinions here.
Primary edge - plain, and full length sharpened. Secondary edge (from the point back) first 1" - full thickness - no false edge grind, line cutter, spyder edge back to handle.
Handle - Self (none), useable with either edge in primary orientation, three sizes, S M L
Sheath - moulded Krydex, drain holes, practical attachment options for hose mount, bc mount, weight belt, leg strap.
Love to see a small "harpy" in H-1, for use in the too politically correct " no knife" places, since I'm dreaming here, mircarta scales would be great, and a high mounted "wire" retaining clip would let a small knife like this vanish into a cumberbund
Also would like to see the old Spyderco "Probe", and "Mini Probe" in H-1 (with a propper sheath)
Below are the things I would like to see in a dive knife.
SECURE SHEATH- I have lost more dive knives than I can count. Still needs to release knife when needed.
Blade- 3 & 1/2 inched long. Single edged. Partially serrated. Blunt tip (I use a folder with a point for underwater hunting so I don't puncture something I shouldn't).
Full tang construction.
Removable scales.
Flat tank banger pommel (I don't use mine as a tank banger but sometimes I use it to tap things into place since I don't usually have around a hammer underwater).
I don't think a line cutter is needed since it has a partially serrated blade. Serrated blades work better than line cutters anyways.
Sheath- This item will make or break a new diving knife. It needs to be secure (as stated above- restated here for added emphasis). The thumbbolt by Blackie Collins is VERY GOOD. Very secure & easy to access.
It should have several ways to mount it. The clip should be removable AND reversable or have a place to mount it on either end of the sheath so the knife can be mounted rightside up or upside down.
This next part is not currently available on any dive knife that I'm aware of & should REALLY make yours stand out. The sheath should have a 3/8 inch area around the blade that has holes through it every 1/2 to 3/4 inch so that the sheath can be zip tied anywhere and in any position. If that part is not clear, let me know & I'll email a drawing. I need to patent this feature but I'll trade it for a lifetime supply of knives
.
The sheath should also have a drain hole in it.
James
SECURE SHEATH- I have lost more dive knives than I can count. Still needs to release knife when needed.
Blade- 3 & 1/2 inched long. Single edged. Partially serrated. Blunt tip (I use a folder with a point for underwater hunting so I don't puncture something I shouldn't).
Full tang construction.
Removable scales.
Flat tank banger pommel (I don't use mine as a tank banger but sometimes I use it to tap things into place since I don't usually have around a hammer underwater).
I don't think a line cutter is needed since it has a partially serrated blade. Serrated blades work better than line cutters anyways.
Sheath- This item will make or break a new diving knife. It needs to be secure (as stated above- restated here for added emphasis). The thumbbolt by Blackie Collins is VERY GOOD. Very secure & easy to access.
It should have several ways to mount it. The clip should be removable AND reversable or have a place to mount it on either end of the sheath so the knife can be mounted rightside up or upside down.
This next part is not currently available on any dive knife that I'm aware of & should REALLY make yours stand out. The sheath should have a 3/8 inch area around the blade that has holes through it every 1/2 to 3/4 inch so that the sheath can be zip tied anywhere and in any position. If that part is not clear, let me know & I'll email a drawing. I need to patent this feature but I'll trade it for a lifetime supply of knives
.The sheath should also have a drain hole in it.
James
evilbacon
Registered
I think the perfect knife (for me anyways) would be a full tang, drop point tanto with a blade of atleast 4 inches long, half serrated and a line cutter on the back side with a pry bar surface on the bottom of the grip. So then you have the best of both worlds combine in one very awesome knife.
As for colors, i would think a black or gun metal gray non-reflecting coating on the blade, or just a dusted or matted silver-ish color would be great aswell.
if you are making sheaths aswell, A simple push putton sheath would be great or a simple tight kydex sheath both that you could easily attach to the BC.
That's just my 2 cents on this.
Evil :bgmad:
As for colors, i would think a black or gun metal gray non-reflecting coating on the blade, or just a dusted or matted silver-ish color would be great aswell.
if you are making sheaths aswell, A simple push putton sheath would be great or a simple tight kydex sheath both that you could easily attach to the BC.
That's just my 2 cents on this.
Evil :bgmad:
Hi,
In my profession, I generally try to work from base requirements ("What do you need it do to?", "How and under what circumstances would you typically interact with the tool?") as opposed to specific features ... give me the what, and I'll figure out the how.
Here's what I am looking for in a cutting tool (YMMV):
- Primary requirement: Escape entanglement wreck diving, cold fresh water
- Secondary:
= warm water
= salt water
- Possible uses, but low likelihood or need envisioned:
= prying ... haven't encountered the need to date
= hammering (tank banging, etc.) ... typically have other things to hand for that
= hunting or such ... don't do this
- Expected materials that need to be cut:
= fishing line, monofilament
= fishing line, steel leader line
= electrical wire
= safety reel line
= rope, varying thickness
= gear webbing straps (1" - 2")
- Expected use circumstances:
= bare hands, light reef gloves, 5 mm neoprene semidry gloves, dry gloves (most typically 5mm or dry)
= water temperatures 82 degF to 35degF (most typically 45-55)
= need to be able to deploy and resheath by touch, one handed (even with heavily gloved and cold hands)
= should be usable by either hand (no orientation constraints in sheath mechanisms, if any)
= may need to cut blindly or in odd positions, and in tight spaces, so should be relatively "safe" (avoiding unintentional cutting or damage to equipment)
= may need to be used one-handed
= may need to be flipped in hand, or moved to other hand seeking workable cutting position
= need to be able to mount sheath in varying positions and orientations
= need to move or remove sheath easily and frequently (varying gear, use conditions, removal for travel or when diving in knife-restricted areas)
- Other considerations: I often carry multiple cutting tools (Z-knife and EMT shears) in addition, so some compromises are acceptable to balance overall capabilities and features.
Here's my interpretation of how those requirements drive knife features, FWIW:
* single edge <== safety
* blunt tip <== safety
* line-cutter notch <== materials range, steel leader line; facilitate single handed or odd position use
* serrated <== materials range, ability to saw larger diameter rope or webbing
* ~short blade, say no more than 3" <== use in tight quarters, odd positions; flexibility in mounting position; safety
* non-slip grip <== handling knife with gloves, passing and flipping it around
* sheath with multiple, flexible mounting options
* uncomplicated sheath retention solution <== easy to find and deploy by touch, even with gloves, either hand
* easy to engage point back into sheath and reseat knife <== resheath by touch, even with gloves, either hand
* more than one sheath <== different gear, different gear configurations depending on circumstances ... can leave sheaths attached to multiple BCs, or multiple locations
Cheers,
Walter
In my profession, I generally try to work from base requirements ("What do you need it do to?", "How and under what circumstances would you typically interact with the tool?") as opposed to specific features ... give me the what, and I'll figure out the how.
Here's what I am looking for in a cutting tool (YMMV):
- Primary requirement: Escape entanglement wreck diving, cold fresh water
- Secondary:
= warm water
= salt water
- Possible uses, but low likelihood or need envisioned:
= prying ... haven't encountered the need to date
= hammering (tank banging, etc.) ... typically have other things to hand for that
= hunting or such ... don't do this
- Expected materials that need to be cut:
= fishing line, monofilament
= fishing line, steel leader line
= electrical wire
= safety reel line
= rope, varying thickness
= gear webbing straps (1" - 2")
- Expected use circumstances:
= bare hands, light reef gloves, 5 mm neoprene semidry gloves, dry gloves (most typically 5mm or dry)
= water temperatures 82 degF to 35degF (most typically 45-55)
= need to be able to deploy and resheath by touch, one handed (even with heavily gloved and cold hands)
= should be usable by either hand (no orientation constraints in sheath mechanisms, if any)
= may need to cut blindly or in odd positions, and in tight spaces, so should be relatively "safe" (avoiding unintentional cutting or damage to equipment)
= may need to be used one-handed
= may need to be flipped in hand, or moved to other hand seeking workable cutting position
= need to be able to mount sheath in varying positions and orientations
= need to move or remove sheath easily and frequently (varying gear, use conditions, removal for travel or when diving in knife-restricted areas)
- Other considerations: I often carry multiple cutting tools (Z-knife and EMT shears) in addition, so some compromises are acceptable to balance overall capabilities and features.
Here's my interpretation of how those requirements drive knife features, FWIW:
* single edge <== safety
* blunt tip <== safety
* line-cutter notch <== materials range, steel leader line; facilitate single handed or odd position use
* serrated <== materials range, ability to saw larger diameter rope or webbing
* ~short blade, say no more than 3" <== use in tight quarters, odd positions; flexibility in mounting position; safety
* non-slip grip <== handling knife with gloves, passing and flipping it around
* sheath with multiple, flexible mounting options
* uncomplicated sheath retention solution <== easy to find and deploy by touch, even with gloves, either hand
* easy to engage point back into sheath and reseat knife <== resheath by touch, even with gloves, either hand
* more than one sheath <== different gear, different gear configurations depending on circumstances ... can leave sheaths attached to multiple BCs, or multiple locations
Cheers,
Walter
Bob3
Contributor
After digesting this a bit, it would be a very good thing to resurrect the old Vulcan Dive Knife that US Divers had back in the '50s & '60s. That hand guard worked like a "Goodman Handle" so the actual handle of the knife was on the backside of the hand. This was extremely handy when slicing through a LOT of mono & netting.
So far it sounds like a whole new line of knives will be needed, not just a couple of models.
So far it sounds like a whole new line of knives will be needed, not just a couple of models.
Surly
Contributor
Sal, here would be my preferences:
3" fixed blade, full tang H1
heavily textured, bonded scales in a BRIGHT color. G10, FRN, etc doesn't matter.
Cheaper is better.
Flexible attachment system, ala the new Benchmade Nimravus sheath.
Screwdriver tip.
O2 wrench cutout in the handle
Bottleopener cutout in the handle
3" fixed blade, full tang H1
heavily textured, bonded scales in a BRIGHT color. G10, FRN, etc doesn't matter.
Cheaper is better.
Flexible attachment system, ala the new Benchmade Nimravus sheath.
Screwdriver tip.
O2 wrench cutout in the handle
Bottleopener cutout in the handle
hdiaz
Registered
Here is another vote for a knife like Gerber River Shorty. Perfect size/weight.
Important features:
-Blunt tip for prying.
-Would prefer much sharper blade like the one in Salt 1.
-Line cutter notch on spine. (Serrations on Gerber seem worthless)
-Holes on handle to attach lanyard if desired
As others have suggested, sheath is very important. Perhaps you can offer multiple sheath(s) and or mounting options as accessories to base knife. I prefer an uncomplicated nylon webbing sheath with velcro closure. It should be easy to attach to webbing on BC or on BC cummerbund belt. Should be easy to deply knife with gloved hands. There should also be some tactile indication on handle to indicate which way is the blade.
H-1 seems like ideal metal for such a knife.
Important features:
-Blunt tip for prying.
-Would prefer much sharper blade like the one in Salt 1.
-Line cutter notch on spine. (Serrations on Gerber seem worthless)
-Holes on handle to attach lanyard if desired
As others have suggested, sheath is very important. Perhaps you can offer multiple sheath(s) and or mounting options as accessories to base knife. I prefer an uncomplicated nylon webbing sheath with velcro closure. It should be easy to attach to webbing on BC or on BC cummerbund belt. Should be easy to deply knife with gloved hands. There should also be some tactile indication on handle to indicate which way is the blade.
H-1 seems like ideal metal for such a knife.
Hey Green Manelishi,
"friction" sheath. Need more input. Friction on the blade? molded to create a "snap fit" with the handle? Is there a sample on the market that you think works well that I can study?
Surly,
Bright colors? any preferences?
Hi Compudude & Evilbacon,
you had mentioned "tanto" blades. I'm assuming that you mean the "Americanized Tanto tip" as made popular by Bob Lum? (Real Tanto tips are thin and pointy, as the original purpose of the tanto was seppuku, [ honorable suicide ]).
May I ask why you would prefer this style of tip?
Hi Whitelightnin,
I agree with you on the importance of the sheath design. Especially the fastening systems. (knife to sheath and sheath to person). We've been spending a reat deal of time on this concept, because of it's importance.
We'd like to use the same "latch" system, if possible, for the dive knives as well as our 82nd Airborne piece.
Drawings are always nice, but, if you are planning on applying for patents, for our own protection, you may want to do a disclosure agreement before showing your idea to anyone.
Assuming we have removable scales, and assuming they will be injection molded (lower cost to the ELU (end line user);
FRN (fiberglass reinfoced nylon) is hard, we would add texture for "grip", Kraton is soft, can use texture as well, but "rubbery" Kraton material also has "grip".
Which is preferred?
I'm getting the impression that only one blade length, 3" is preferred?
thanx for all of the great input so far.
sal
"friction" sheath. Need more input. Friction on the blade? molded to create a "snap fit" with the handle? Is there a sample on the market that you think works well that I can study?
Surly,
Bright colors? any preferences?
Hi Compudude & Evilbacon,
you had mentioned "tanto" blades. I'm assuming that you mean the "Americanized Tanto tip" as made popular by Bob Lum? (Real Tanto tips are thin and pointy, as the original purpose of the tanto was seppuku, [ honorable suicide ]).
May I ask why you would prefer this style of tip?
Hi Whitelightnin,
I agree with you on the importance of the sheath design. Especially the fastening systems. (knife to sheath and sheath to person). We've been spending a reat deal of time on this concept, because of it's importance.
We'd like to use the same "latch" system, if possible, for the dive knives as well as our 82nd Airborne piece.
Drawings are always nice, but, if you are planning on applying for patents, for our own protection, you may want to do a disclosure agreement before showing your idea to anyone.
Assuming we have removable scales, and assuming they will be injection molded (lower cost to the ELU (end line user);
FRN (fiberglass reinfoced nylon) is hard, we would add texture for "grip", Kraton is soft, can use texture as well, but "rubbery" Kraton material also has "grip".
Which is preferred?
I'm getting the impression that only one blade length, 3" is preferred?
thanx for all of the great input so far.
sal
Surly
Contributor
Sal, I like yellow, but bright green or bright orange (rescue orange) would be fine as well. Ideally the sheath would be brightly colored as well, or at least have a colored throat.
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