Easy there...I wasn't referring to your post, but another that recommended the 'basic system' and 'no additional padding required'. Of course there is still the issue that the original poster is asking about a product that nobody other than myself (in this thread) has used.
Halcyon Infinity for a new diver?
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Scott L
Contributor
If Halcyon would have kept their original (non-padded) backplate cover I suspect they'd have an easier time marketing the Infinity. I remember a ?Poseidon? harness that had enough padding to likely necessitate at least five additional pounds of lead. Unfortunately the padded backplate comes with the webbing pads so it's all or nothing. Anyway that's why I said piecemeal could be better.
lv2dive
Formerly known as KatePNAtl
I was just wondering what you meant. I've actually tried the cinch system, I personally prefer the simplicity of the standard harness system.
But I know people who do prefer the cinch, which was why I was pretty clear with my disclaimers about it being my opinion. To the OP: As you can tell, people are passionate about their choices, even WITHIN the BP/W world. I think I would have bought a special edition pink Halcyon system that came out recently, except it ONLY came as the Infinity not the Eclipse- and I just don't want to be bothered with the padding and the cinch. Anyway, if you have an opportunity to try them both, take it. But it's no big deal either way at this price point... If you bought the Eclipse and decided later you wanted the cinch and/or padding, you could always buy it separately. Or make the bigger purchase and sell what you don't use. But you aren't going to wrong with either system.
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With the infinity over the eclipse the only differences are the cinch system and the additional back and shoulder padding. I was looking to save when I bought mine. When I started thinking of piecmealing it, the price goes up if you eventually decide to add everything. I wasn't sure if I wanted the padding, but I knew I wanted the cinch. I decided it was just easier to buy the infinity over the eclipse with the cinch. Many people don't like the padding. I personally do. I'm in Fl and alternate between warm Gulf waters, springs, and winter dives. When I'm in a 3 mil or more, the padding becomes basically moot in my singles. But if I dive in a tshirt and boardshorts the padding is definitely more comfortable. I tend to be on the DIR side of things and dive a terchnical setup and the padding probably isn't stripped down enough, but hey I like it so I don't care. Now in doubles I like the shoulder pads because many of our springs require long walks and I find I get sore over my clavicle region without the pads.
It's really a matter of personal opinion. Because I'm so back and forth between exposure protection I couldn't imagine not having the cinch. Also I'm getting old and lazy. After a long dive I dont want to wriggle out of my harness. I simply pull the shoulder strap loose and go. One other pro to the cinch no one else mentioned is that as a new diver and someone new to a webbing harness you will probably play with how tight you want your shoulder webbing. I know originally I liked it tight, but now I like it a little looser. With the cinch I can adjust every dive easily. No messing with triglides to adjust. So if I have a big lunch during a surface interval I can "loosen my belt"
It's really a matter of personal opinion. Because I'm so back and forth between exposure protection I couldn't imagine not having the cinch. Also I'm getting old and lazy. After a long dive I dont want to wriggle out of my harness. I simply pull the shoulder strap loose and go. One other pro to the cinch no one else mentioned is that as a new diver and someone new to a webbing harness you will probably play with how tight you want your shoulder webbing. I know originally I liked it tight, but now I like it a little looser. With the cinch I can adjust every dive easily. No messing with triglides to adjust. So if I have a big lunch during a surface interval I can "loosen my belt"
Thank you all for your replies! You're all so helpful, I'm truly thankful for the time you spend explaining stuff to me. Your answers have however spawned a few more questions on my end. I should probably have specified a few more things about where I might be diving.
1. I am from Montreal, Quebec. Most popular diving season is in the Fall (water at 4C-10C/39.2F-50 degrees), and under ice diving is also popular (water can reach 0C/32F degrees in salty streams). Obviously, a drysuit is very popular around here. Even in Spring and Summer, most local divers dive with either a 7mm or 14mm.
2. For now my focus and aim is really to discover the warmer destinations (Florida, Cozumel, Turk & Caicos, etc.) but I would love to dive locally as well (there are 300 documented wrecks along the St-Lawrence). Seal diving is popular in Summer around Gaspésie.
Assuming I'd invest in a single BC system, whether I dive in a drysuit, 14mm or 3mm down south, it's my understanding that the Cinch system would make adjusting a lot more enjoyable. Is that right? Tonight it was our last course before the theoretical exam on Thursday. I asked our instructor and the second DM what they thought of a BP&W, and they seemed really surprised I was even asking... "Why do you even want a technical vest for recreational diving?" (I'm French Canadian so I translated that... I'm not sure if the term "technical diving" exists in English, but in French, "Plongée Technique" is used to described either military, professional or advanced diving beyond the limits set by PADI even for Dive Masters). It made me feel slightly uncomfortable... the instructor has 2021 dives to his logbook, is super nice and knowledgeable, but he did say he was a cheap person... both of them seemed opposed only because of the cost. But money is not an issue for me right now. Their second argument against a BP&W (1st one being cost, since its 2x the price of a vest-style BCD) was that on the surface, people tend to fall face forward because the inflation is from behind only.
At 217 lbs and 6'1" 17% BF, I've felt very "constrained" in the vest-style BCD anytime I needed to pump enough air to achieve positive buoyancy on the surface during training. It's even uncomfortable on the sides. Sean from Dan Diving Shop told me they too started to introduce BP&W even for the beginner OW course. I've lost over 45 lbs of fat this year and still have 15lbs to go before I reach my goal weight and BF, so perhaps this will make me more comfortable in a vest BC?
And this brings us to the ultimate question... doM dOM DOM!
Assume I can afford the infinity without breaking the bank, and that the possibility of me diving in a drysuit in the foreseable future is extremely likely, from what I gather, the cinch system and the overall design is worth its price? Even for a noob like me?
Again, thanks so much. I found Scuba Board very early in my planning stage process for our trip, and I'm 110% convinced had I not found these forums, my experience would have been diminished and my choices not as appropriate.
1. I am from Montreal, Quebec. Most popular diving season is in the Fall (water at 4C-10C/39.2F-50 degrees), and under ice diving is also popular (water can reach 0C/32F degrees in salty streams). Obviously, a drysuit is very popular around here. Even in Spring and Summer, most local divers dive with either a 7mm or 14mm.
2. For now my focus and aim is really to discover the warmer destinations (Florida, Cozumel, Turk & Caicos, etc.) but I would love to dive locally as well (there are 300 documented wrecks along the St-Lawrence). Seal diving is popular in Summer around Gaspésie.
Assuming I'd invest in a single BC system, whether I dive in a drysuit, 14mm or 3mm down south, it's my understanding that the Cinch system would make adjusting a lot more enjoyable. Is that right? Tonight it was our last course before the theoretical exam on Thursday. I asked our instructor and the second DM what they thought of a BP&W, and they seemed really surprised I was even asking... "Why do you even want a technical vest for recreational diving?" (I'm French Canadian so I translated that... I'm not sure if the term "technical diving" exists in English, but in French, "Plongée Technique" is used to described either military, professional or advanced diving beyond the limits set by PADI even for Dive Masters). It made me feel slightly uncomfortable... the instructor has 2021 dives to his logbook, is super nice and knowledgeable, but he did say he was a cheap person... both of them seemed opposed only because of the cost. But money is not an issue for me right now. Their second argument against a BP&W (1st one being cost, since its 2x the price of a vest-style BCD) was that on the surface, people tend to fall face forward because the inflation is from behind only.
At 217 lbs and 6'1" 17% BF, I've felt very "constrained" in the vest-style BCD anytime I needed to pump enough air to achieve positive buoyancy on the surface during training. It's even uncomfortable on the sides. Sean from Dan Diving Shop told me they too started to introduce BP&W even for the beginner OW course. I've lost over 45 lbs of fat this year and still have 15lbs to go before I reach my goal weight and BF, so perhaps this will make me more comfortable in a vest BC?
And this brings us to the ultimate question... doM dOM DOM!
Assume I can afford the infinity without breaking the bank, and that the possibility of me diving in a drysuit in the foreseable future is extremely likely, from what I gather, the cinch system and the overall design is worth its price? Even for a noob like me?
Again, thanks so much. I found Scuba Board very early in my planning stage process for our trip, and I'm 110% convinced had I not found these forums, my experience would have been diminished and my choices not as appropriate.
Absolutely a bpw regardless of if its a Halcyon or not is wortht the cost even for a new diver. Especially for a new diver. You will become a better diver than most of the people in your class more quickly in a bpw and I will guarantee that pretty much no one on any board that made the switch to bow regret the decision or disagree it will help your diving progression. I personally as I've stated before believe your the perfect person to gain from the cinch system. You are unsure in your diving future and will be diving many different environments with varying levels of exposure protection. The cinch will simply make the transition seamless. Get on the boat or at the dive site, loosen the shoulder webbing, climb in, tighten, dive. No adjusting the triglide slides base on your exposure protection. It simply makes your life easier, and I don't believe you'll be unhappy with it. In my doubles because I likely will always be in a drysuit, I really didn't need the cinch because I liekly wouldn't need to adjust because my protection won't change. I still got it anyway simply because I love the ease of getting out, plus if I do decide to dive wet, I don't have to adjust again. I plan on getting into deco procedures eventually and after two to three hours in the water in doubles with stages I'm going to want the easiest way out of my harness when I'm beat. The way I look at it, unless you know exactly what your diving will be in 10 years, then buy gear that will grow with you. In my opinion the cinch allows for growth, so I buy it on all of my Halcyon plates.
As far as the face down at the surface, yes absolutely any back inflate be it a rec bc or a bpw will put you face down when you overinflate. The problem is that most new divers are uncomfortable at the surface so they overinflate to get way out of the water, which will tip you forward. You will soon learn how much to actually inflate so this doesn't happen. And don't worry its not puching you uncontrollably face down, it just leans you forward. When you feel it, let a little air out. Again any back inflate will do this, not just a bp.
And lastly, backplates are not technical rigs. They are the preferred rig for tech divers, but they are for any stage of diving. And more and more people are learning how amazing a bp/w is. My OW and AOW instructors were nontechnical(this was 17 years ago) and felt anything other than a good old BC was tech. It was the biggest damage ever done to my diving. I've dove a bc for 17 years. Once I got into a bp, it transformed my diving, from swimming undrwater, to flying gracefully underwater. The comfort and control I felt in the bpw is what gave me the confidence to pursue technical diving. I was not a tech diver or planning to be a tech diver when I bought my bp.
I will have my girlfriend comment on the bpw and more particularly her opinions on the cinch. She just got into a wing and loves it. She is much smaller than me and almost always dives the same thick exposure protection and still likes the cinch. I'll let her add. I think mostly she likes the cinch is because as she learns to dive in her bpw, its not a pain to make webbing adjustments as she learns how tight or loose she wants everything.
As far as the face down at the surface, yes absolutely any back inflate be it a rec bc or a bpw will put you face down when you overinflate. The problem is that most new divers are uncomfortable at the surface so they overinflate to get way out of the water, which will tip you forward. You will soon learn how much to actually inflate so this doesn't happen. And don't worry its not puching you uncontrollably face down, it just leans you forward. When you feel it, let a little air out. Again any back inflate will do this, not just a bp.
And lastly, backplates are not technical rigs. They are the preferred rig for tech divers, but they are for any stage of diving. And more and more people are learning how amazing a bp/w is. My OW and AOW instructors were nontechnical(this was 17 years ago) and felt anything other than a good old BC was tech. It was the biggest damage ever done to my diving. I've dove a bc for 17 years. Once I got into a bp, it transformed my diving, from swimming undrwater, to flying gracefully underwater. The comfort and control I felt in the bpw is what gave me the confidence to pursue technical diving. I was not a tech diver or planning to be a tech diver when I bought my bp.
I will have my girlfriend comment on the bpw and more particularly her opinions on the cinch. She just got into a wing and loves it. She is much smaller than me and almost always dives the same thick exposure protection and still likes the cinch. I'll let her add. I think mostly she likes the cinch is because as she learns to dive in her bpw, its not a pain to make webbing adjustments as she learns how tight or loose she wants everything.
If you take a trip down to florida and still are unsure on your decision, PM me and I can let you dive with a group of us that all dive Halcyon and we'll hook you up with some dive time in one. It's getting cold up there anyway.
Scott L
Contributor
hoopa
Contributor
I didnt read any of the reply in this thread-- so if im being redundant-- oh well....
First off ill say--- get a back plate and wing(like everyone else has said)... The reason they are nice is
a. you take weight off of your belt -- cause the plate weighs around 6lbs... Plus you can add weight in the forum of a sta and a sta weight plate... These things are great cause instead of giant weight pouches on your side-- you have them out of the way..
b. your front is naked-- yahoooo--- oh wait-- not that kinda naked... Naked in that you dont have a bunch of crap up there.. you just have your straps and a few rings-- you feel like your floating in a bpw vs a vest that feels like your in a straight jacket..
c. totally configurable-- you want a extra ring here or no ring or a this or a that--- do it.. make it happen.. totally customizable with a bpw...
d. e. and f.=-= i dont know i could come up with plenty more reasons to get a bpw--= but im too tired and am sure you have heard them all.
When i decided to go bpw --- i could never get comfortable with the standard single strap setups... Hard to get in and out of -- and for me-- never that comfortable... So i went with a iq pack from oms... Worked great... But i never liked the idea of quick releases in my setup-- but just lived with it.. Then-- while walking around one day i go into a dive shop and see the infinity hal set up.. Hmmmmm what is this(with a ? over my head).. The guy comes over and show it to me... "an adjustable single strap bpw system that can adapt in a instant to me wearing a dry suit or a wetsuit or no suit--- IM IN"... So this last weekend i went to catlina and use it for the first time... LOVED itttttt.. would come in--- sit down-- pull the strap out-- slide out like skeeters peter- was great...
Is there things to know about the infinity system--- well-- a small leaning curve.. But once all figured out it was great.. First is--- pull the waist strap uip when adjusting the fit.. If you just pull straight out-- it either wont adjust or hard as heck... Put if you pull a bit up === zIppppp and into place... The other things to know as my PERSONAL OPINIONS... So take these with less then a grain of salt... Unless you like them you can take them seriously lol.. I dont like the tank straps that come with the setup.. They look pretty but for me-- there are only one set of straps that i like-- the scuba pro straps.. They dont slip-- you adjust once and they work great-- they lock into place with a thud and dont move... etc.. So i put those on.. I also didnt like the halcyon wing.. I dont know why-- i just didnt.. Some like it but i also talked to a number of people(in person) who said -- naaa they didnt care for the wing-- either cause of problems or dive characteristics... So when i got my infinity setup-- i got it without the wing... I added the 40lb oxychec mach V and that wing is soo badass-- i love it.. Super slim profile-- and dives great... I actually ordered both the oxy extreme and mach v 40--- cause i didnt know which one i wanted.. Thought i was going to want the extreme-- but ended up sending that one back.. The mach V held its shape better and held flatter and closer to the tank then the extreme... Also the extreme was just as likly to get a pinch as the mach v.. The extreme is really only about puncture resistance to a extreme factor.. going into a rusty rec with lots of jagged pieces-- get the extreme.. Everything else--the standard mach v is just as good if not better(its better for me)...
I have a bit more to do to learn the rig and get it dialed in-- but we are talking very small and minor things(move the ring up a half inch etc)... If i was to do it again-- i would do it again just how i described... hal infity with removable weight plate and sta-- oxy mach V and scuba pro straps.. You end up with a nice rig that works well that is customiable and still a single strap setup(safer)...
So to answer your question -- no-- its not too much system for you-- cause its as much system as you need when you need it.. The padding helps and is comfy... GL in whatever you decide to get..
First off ill say--- get a back plate and wing(like everyone else has said)... The reason they are nice is
a. you take weight off of your belt -- cause the plate weighs around 6lbs... Plus you can add weight in the forum of a sta and a sta weight plate... These things are great cause instead of giant weight pouches on your side-- you have them out of the way..
b. your front is naked-- yahoooo--- oh wait-- not that kinda naked... Naked in that you dont have a bunch of crap up there.. you just have your straps and a few rings-- you feel like your floating in a bpw vs a vest that feels like your in a straight jacket..
c. totally configurable-- you want a extra ring here or no ring or a this or a that--- do it.. make it happen.. totally customizable with a bpw...
d. e. and f.=-= i dont know i could come up with plenty more reasons to get a bpw--= but im too tired and am sure you have heard them all.
When i decided to go bpw --- i could never get comfortable with the standard single strap setups... Hard to get in and out of -- and for me-- never that comfortable... So i went with a iq pack from oms... Worked great... But i never liked the idea of quick releases in my setup-- but just lived with it.. Then-- while walking around one day i go into a dive shop and see the infinity hal set up.. Hmmmmm what is this(with a ? over my head).. The guy comes over and show it to me... "an adjustable single strap bpw system that can adapt in a instant to me wearing a dry suit or a wetsuit or no suit--- IM IN"... So this last weekend i went to catlina and use it for the first time... LOVED itttttt.. would come in--- sit down-- pull the strap out-- slide out like skeeters peter- was great...
Is there things to know about the infinity system--- well-- a small leaning curve.. But once all figured out it was great.. First is--- pull the waist strap uip when adjusting the fit.. If you just pull straight out-- it either wont adjust or hard as heck... Put if you pull a bit up === zIppppp and into place... The other things to know as my PERSONAL OPINIONS... So take these with less then a grain of salt... Unless you like them you can take them seriously lol.. I dont like the tank straps that come with the setup.. They look pretty but for me-- there are only one set of straps that i like-- the scuba pro straps.. They dont slip-- you adjust once and they work great-- they lock into place with a thud and dont move... etc.. So i put those on.. I also didnt like the halcyon wing.. I dont know why-- i just didnt.. Some like it but i also talked to a number of people(in person) who said -- naaa they didnt care for the wing-- either cause of problems or dive characteristics... So when i got my infinity setup-- i got it without the wing... I added the 40lb oxychec mach V and that wing is soo badass-- i love it.. Super slim profile-- and dives great... I actually ordered both the oxy extreme and mach v 40--- cause i didnt know which one i wanted.. Thought i was going to want the extreme-- but ended up sending that one back.. The mach V held its shape better and held flatter and closer to the tank then the extreme... Also the extreme was just as likly to get a pinch as the mach v.. The extreme is really only about puncture resistance to a extreme factor.. going into a rusty rec with lots of jagged pieces-- get the extreme.. Everything else--the standard mach v is just as good if not better(its better for me)...
I have a bit more to do to learn the rig and get it dialed in-- but we are talking very small and minor things(move the ring up a half inch etc)... If i was to do it again-- i would do it again just how i described... hal infity with removable weight plate and sta-- oxy mach V and scuba pro straps.. You end up with a nice rig that works well that is customiable and still a single strap setup(safer)...
So to answer your question -- no-- its not too much system for you-- cause its as much system as you need when you need it.. The padding helps and is comfy... GL in whatever you decide to get..
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