Have limits changed, or have I mis-remembered?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

What does this mean? It is an incomprehensible sentence.


What happens on boats? I do not understand your point.


10-15 years ago ( a time reference) many shops were going under. training turned to absolute bare minimum to maximise as many classes before closing. any lake around met ow needs and that is just what they got bare minimum check on skills and exposure for students. Basically they got taught to dive the shallow lakes and nothing more. Then came the boats that did not question the skills of the divers. they accepted the word of the diver as qualified to do the dive. I seldom made a trip where someone did not go low on air or at minimum one divers tank falls out of a bcd hanging by the reg that is being breathed on. There is no one point of failure. it is a cascade of failures in the system that cumulate. I dont see this problem on the coasts like fla. or many places in the north where the cold waters make diving a much more serious thing to do. most of them are frequent divers. but other places diving is a once a year thing done by peoole (snowbirds) with very little experience on vacation. This goes way beyond doing the dog paddle at 40 ft. These deep dives are the first time many have been below 30 ft. In our area we have no place to do AOW dives unless you travel 2-300 miles one way. It becomes cost prohibitive to complete a AOW class. We have one lake that is 50+ feet deep adn prior to flooding they put in a culvert verticle in the lake bottom to get to 70 ft so they could issue AOW cards. Consequently many divers do not get any experience and just go for it to deep waters.

Here is another thing I have noticed. college scuba classes. 30 bucks a head for any class and the state pays the rest of the costs. instructors run these folks through like cattle going to slaughter. started in the spring and by end of summer had his DM and never been anywhere but the same 70 ft lake. Gold mine for the instructors for sure. Padi taught those courses supposedly because the padi curriculum followed the documentation format required by the college.
 
10-15 years ago ( a time reference) many shops were going under. training turned to absolute bare minimum to maximise as many classes before closing. any lake around met ow needs and that is just what they got bare minimum check on skills and exposure for students. Basically they got taught to dive the shallow lakes and nothing more. Then came the boats that did not question the skills of the divers. they accepted the word of the diver as qualified to do the dive. I seldom made a trip where someone did not go low on air or at minimum one divers tank falls out of a bcd hanging by the reg that is being breathed on. There is no one point of failure. it is a cascade of failures in the system that cumulate. I dont see this problem on the coasts like fla. or many places in the north where the cold waters make diving a much more serious thing to do. most of them are frequent divers. but other places diving is a once a year thing done by peoole (snowbirds) with very little experience on vacation. This goes way beyond doing the dog paddle at 40 ft. These deep dives are the first time many have been below 30 ft. In our area we have no place to do AOW dives unless you travel 2-300 miles one way. It becomes cost prohibitive to complete a AOW class. We have one lake that is 50+ feet deep adn prior to flooding they put in a culvert verticle in the lake bottom to get to 70 ft so they could issue AOW cards. Consequently many divers do not get any experience and just go for it to deep waters.

Here is another thing I have noticed. college scuba classes. 30 bucks a head for any class and the state pays the rest of the costs. instructors run these folks through like cattle going to slaughter. started in the spring and by end of summer had his DM and never been anywhere but the same 70 ft lake. Gold mine for the instructors for sure. Padi taught those courses supposedly because the padi curriculum followed the documentation format required by the college.
Remind me never to send any prospective student to SE Texas.

By the say, PADI doesn't teach any classes.
 
Yes, that is a bad situation. You must be doing an awful lot of diving to start from scratch and in 3-4 months be a DM--or not, I guess. Then again, I read some of those tropical internships do have you diving in some way or another basically every day for a few weeks and getting your DM.
I have no problem with someone being a DM having only dived in one 70' deep lake--IF that is where they will be assisting on courses. Our shop has two 25' (depending on tide) training spots in the ocean here. And those are where I assisted on courses later on.
None of my experiences elsewhere (quite a few States, Panama) had anything to do with my DM training with our shop here and my course assisting.
 
Maybe, just maybe........

.....the whole problem is that there's no competition in this scuba sport. So, since the competition element is lacking, people start looking for it.
Depth, SAC rate, temperature. Oh and training. Training agencies, training curricula.
And from there you go to DiveMasters. And Instructors.

Defining the competition element is very subjective. Basically it comes to down to this:
1. If you have been diving ______________ it's too soon for a diver with less logged dives to do the same.
2. You can dive _________________ without training, as long as you take it step by step.
a. deeper than 18m/60ft
b. in cold water
c. in limited visibility
d. doubles
e. beyond the NDL
f. caves​
(can't be that hard to complete the list with other options)

Competition in training is even more difficult to define, but several conceptions apply.
a. the course is too expensive
b. the course teaches too little
c. agency A is better than agency B
d. anyone progressing faster than you did, falls in the category too-soon-too-fast.​

My own view is that I never cared about all this. When I am diving, it's all about the fun I personally have. When I am teaching, it's all about getting my students to a skill level, where they can experience the same amount of fun in diving, within safe boundaries. Some agencies define minimum standards and training limits, other agencies define strict standards without freedom for the instructor to add anything. Commercial agencies earn money on courses, non-profit agencies turn out to be hardly any cheaper.

Compare diving to the tennis sport. For some reason, it's totally accepted that tennis lessons cost up to a buck per minute. You're expected to buy your own gear prior to a beginners course. There is no definition of what a tennis teacher should be able to do. And still loads of people pay happily.
And when you compete in a game, you can easily determine if you need more training/skills. The risk of drowning is not present on a tennis court, but you can just as easily suffer a heart attack on the court as under water. Apart from that, there is no need to define any safety limits in this competition sport.
If you win all games, make it to the tournaments in a short time, nobody says too-soon-too-fast, nobody imposes limits.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom