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Have You Outgrown Your Dive Shop?

Discussion in 'Basic Scuba Discussions' started by Trace Malinowski, Sep 21, 2018.

  1. rsingler

    rsingler Scuba Instructor, Tinkerer in Brass Staff Member ScubaBoard Sponsor

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Napa, California
    Perhaps you are being too subtle, @happy-diver . Perhaps I missed the point of your four selected excerpts.
    I read your post as saying that, as Trace suggested often happens, I have made @Reku "a target of criticism" just because he's going outside his local dive shop.

    So, full disclosure: I have a "small compressor" too! But oops! I also work part time for a local dive shop. And oops! I also buy stuff from Pirhana and LeisurePro. And oops! My dive shop boss doesn't mind.
    My point was, when posting in the Basic Forum, we have an obligation as SB members to consider our audience before cryptically advocating a practice that might be unsafe in novice hands. That's all. Let's be good advisors here.

    Perhaps I missed your point...
    rhwestfall likes this.
  2. Reku

    Reku Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Great Lakes + Northern Florida + Marsh Harbor

    I found this post through the search function while looking for something else and I actually had no idea I was in the basic forum. My response would have been tailored to this forum - had I been paying attention. Oops. Don't work and post - learn from my mistakes.

    @rsingler is correct in what I described above is unsafe if done incorrectly. Go to an LDS to get your fills if you are not trained in mixed gas blending and / or filling your own tanks.

    Sorry again for the mix up!
  3. happy-diver

    happy-diver Skindiver Just feelin it

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: same ocean as you
    Heavens to murgatroyd if some smart people new to diving break down the barriers of the basic forum
    and burst forth into the the mainstream and stumble onto an advanced discussion and learn something
    grantwiscour and edwants2dive like this.
  4. ScubaWithTurk

    ScubaWithTurk Bubble Blowing Buddha

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Al Ain, Abu Dhabi, UAE
    I began work at a dive center and was a PADI OW diver and RAID Advanced and Sidemount diver. They allowed me to take many courses for free such as wreck, deep, divemaster and RAID Deco 40 and Deco 50. I then became a PADI Instructor and only had to pay for my IE.

    Note: my center was a PADI 5 Star IDC Center but the owners were UTD ITs and RAID ITs.

    Now once I became an instructor, my progression was killed. I was told I didn't need to be a specialty instructor for anything other than Nitrox even though I was told they would work with me to get me to MSDT.

    The people in my IDC were taking Deep, Wreck and other instructor specialties (and to be honest were less skilled than myself by the admission of my CD) and yet the owners told me no way was I ready to teach deep or wreck. Yet these people who had half the dives I did and no tech training were able to take the courses and teach it at our center.

    So I reached out to other people looking to advance myself in my chosen profession. The DC told me I absolutely could not take courses elsewhere. "We have given you plenty already" was what I was told.

    This left a bad taste in my mouth as I fully believe in instructor development at a DC. I have since moved on due to another issue and was not treated as I should have been treated.

    Now I am partnered with a friend running a dive training company here and am scheduled to take my CCR instructor course, normoxic OC course and many others in the near future.

    I am also looking to move out of here in a year or so with Bali or Thailand on the list and I refuse to be stuck in a place where they have no desire to train the staff past a certain point and also won't get stuck in a place where you are told you suck more often than not. Which has turned customers away from that center as well.
    RayfromTX likes this.
  5. MaxBottomtime

    MaxBottomtime Divemaster

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Torrance, CA
    After looking at the number of dives in your profile, I would be more than a little concerned about your ability to be a MSDT. I strongly urge you to dive for a few years and enjoy it before becoming a specialty instructor.
  6. ScubaWithTurk

    ScubaWithTurk Bubble Blowing Buddha

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Al Ain, Abu Dhabi, UAE
    At 300 dives, and some of those being tech dives, I do not quite get what you mean. Following your logic, what would you consider the minimum number of dives allowed to be teach a specialty? According to what I am reading from you, I should not be teaching any specialties.

    I can teach nitrox, deep, sidemount, drysuit, night and limited vis and a couple others. MSDT calls for 25 certified students. Now having said that, I will not teach drysuit due to the fact that I do not feel I have the experience needed to teach it yet. However the others I am very comfortable teaching.

    For some, they may not have learned much in 300 dives, but I am worked extremely hard putting many hours in practicing in the pool, working on skills for each and every dive I go on and working with a team to practice positioning, ascents, stops and emergency protocols.

    Plus those 300 dives do not include dives where I was teaching.

    The point of my post was that, regardless if I taught any specialties or not, my DC stopped any instructor development once you reached instructor. This happened even though I was told they would work with me to get me to MSDT.
    rsingler likes this.
  7. MaxBottomtime

    MaxBottomtime Divemaster

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Torrance, CA
    If I ran the agencies I would not allow anyone to become an instructor before they had completed 500 dives. Training dives are great for improving skills, but I've seen far too many skilled divers with perfect trim and buoyancy who couldn't give a good reason why they dive. They had no interest in the animals and plants underwater, nor the history of shipwrecks they dived. All they cared about was looking good for their team. Most quit diving after a few years when there was nothing left to hold their interest.
  8. CT-Rich

    CT-Rich Solo Diver

    I get treated differently by my shop than others do. They know I know what I am doing and have my opinions. The conversations we have in an empty shop are different than when there are others around.

    I also am aware that they are in business to serve a variety of people. My opinions on gear and classes are my own, and as courtesy, I keep them to myself when they selling something to a customer, unless invited. They are running a business and need to close deals so that I have some place I can go and do my business.

    They have a few pieces of roll my eyes gear, but those are things that people other than me might choose to buy. The same is true for training. I won’t pay to for a night diving cert or a how to roll off a boat cert.

    If I hung out and bad mouthed their affiliated agency or told everyone they could book their trips elsewhere cheaper or to buy everything online, I could understand being invited to leave. Somethings aren’t worth the trouble.
  9. Agreed, that 'type' couldn't care less about 'diving', it's just another way to compete with other people, 'diving' is just another arena for competition/contest...who's the best 'whatever'.
  10. Griffo

    Griffo DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Sydney, Australia
    As far as I can tell, the business model of most LDS in this country is to pump as many new OW students through as they can, and make money selling them "starter" packages. One shop I know insists all new students buy a $150+ mask and $200 fins from him in order to be allowed to take the cut price OW class. Of course he tried to sell them the full kit. Facebook and eBay is full of these OW student BCD /reg packages " only used on four dives".

    There's the occasional shop who cares about continued education, proper advice etc but they seem in the minority.

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