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Mostly asking because several divers have indicated that they don't want anyone touching their valves. I was thinking it could avoid an awkward situation.

I don't think it matters whether the tank valve is touched, providing that divers confirm functionality and air supply through their regulator afterwards.

What I teach is; both divers take turns to breathe from their regulator for a minimum of 4 full breaths. Simultaneously, the buddy takes 4 full breaths from the AAS. This places sufficient demand on the regulator to confirm function. At the same time, the diver should monitor their SPG to ensure that the needle doesn't fluctuate as both divers breath from the regulator.

I also teach divers to fully open their valve when preparing their equipment for diving. There's really no practical benefit from the 1/4 turn back procedure that is often used. If the valve is either fully open, or fully closed, it is a lot more foolproof and harder to misinterpret.

I also teach divers to never leave their equipment pressurized and shut down (air in the hoses and valve closed). Again, spending a second to purge the system if you are shutting down the valve (because the dive is not immediate) will prevent human error from ever leading to entering the water with the air off.

I do understand that some divers are 'touchy' about having their valves manipulated by someone else. In a tiny, tiny proportion of cases, this may be because of a past human error by an inexperienced buddy. In the vast majority of cases, I think this mentality is nothing more ego and posturing... or a repetition of an 'urban myth' ("I know someone, who knew someone, that had their valves closed off by their buddy during the check").

The question has to be asked; "Why would a diver place their trust in a buddy underwater, if they didn't even trust that buddy to touch their tank valves?".

If they felt that their buddy was that incompetent and untrustworthy, why are they diving with them in the first place? I wouldn't!

Nonetheless, if a diver doesn't wish to have their valves checked, than that is their perogative. Simply skip that aspect of the check, but ensure that the breathing 'demand' test is still done. There's no excuse to miss that.

Bear in mind that you are doing a buddy check for purely selfish reasons. Where your buddy is resistant to do the check, remind them that you want to confirm functionality of their regulator because it is your lifeline in the event of an OOA emergency. You are well within your rights to take every proper precaution to preserve your own safety by adhering to the proper procedures.

As an aside; I don't like non-diving 'boat staff' to touch my valves as I am about to enter the water. This happens a lot in some countries - where a member of boat staff acts as a 'dispatcher' as divers enter the water. Firstly, that person isn't my buddy. Secondly, they might not even be a trained diver. Thirdly, the 'valve check' is often done without consent or confirmation from the diver themself. Lastly, and most importantly, - I've already done my personal and buddy checks... so I don't want any interference after that stage.

I think some divers confuse their dislike of this scenario with the very different scenario of a buddy confirming their valves during a methodical, mutual and confirmed safety check.

OP was because I try and adhere to my training even though I've found other more 'experienced' divers don't

Undoubtably, many 'experienced divers' can be terrible role models. Complacency is a factor that easily creeps into a divers' mindset as they gain experience. Of course, that assumes that their 'experience development' is entirely postitive. When those 'experienced divers' finally do gain some 'negative experience' on a dive, you might find that they re-discover the value of doing things more methodically and not under-estimating the occurance of personal human error.

Most complacent 'experienced divers' tend to have a very intermediate number of dives. From my experience, they tend to fall into a category of around 25-150 dives, with certifications from rescue diver to instructor. They've dived enough to gain (over) confidence, but not done enough diving for the statistical inevitability of a malfunction or human error to occur.

Divers invariably start out as being very safety aware and (if well taught) meticulous in their application of proper procedures and drills. Over time, they don't experience any catastrophes and start to feel that those proper procedures and drills are a waste of time. This isn't due to any analysis of the procedures and drills themselves - but rather because they allow themselves to question the need for those drills. This is very faulty logic. The procedures and drills are an 'insurance policy' against a statistical chance. Sooner or later, those divers experience an event that causes them to re-evaluate the benefits of those 'time-wasting' procedures and drills. They become more safety aware again.

If you encounter a diver that neglects the procedures and drills that they were taught, it is always interesting to ask them "why?".

A failure to acknowledge, or believe, that you could make a mistake is a recipe for eventual disaster. The correct procedures and drills do exist (and are taught) to mitigate the risks of human error or gear malfunction. If a diver chooses to allow complacency to lead them into a mindset where they choose not to mitigate those risks, then they are possibly not a diver with sufficient responsibility to be a reliable buddy in the first place.

In respect of dive safety, our cumulative experience counts for very little if it is only positive experience. Because diving is inherently a safe activity, it is very easy for a developing diver to start assuming that it is a risk-free activity. There is a definite difference between being 'safe' and being 'risk free'. Safety protocols exist to keep us safe, because the activity we love doing isn't actually risk free.
 
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FWIW all of the posts here are valid and im sure they are all working fine for ya'll. I personally agree with Bob, a subtle conversation can pull alot of info off of someone about their level and experiances.

Personally i take it one step further to ensure i have a good dive with an instant buddy. Due to the fact that some people are full of sh!t when it comes to their experiance level and such, after i ask what mix they are breathing and see the size of their cylinder, I tend to explain the exact dive profile i want to dive. Are you going to be capable of doing a %%%ft dive for $# minutes and a slow/almost simulated deco ascent? Most will say "sure, no problem", and at that point i tell them if they hoover their gas and cut my dive time in half i will be expecting them to pay me for my dive......After all i didnt spend $125 for two 12 minute dives to 115ft. Usually if the guy or gal is a hoover or a newbie they will go ask for another buddy and i wont have to:)...

The last time a DM tried to buddy me up i got set up with 2 hot females who had no clue what they were doing and were diving air at 125'......I ended up convincing the DM to put me in SOLO.......Good thing too, those two decided it was a good idea to stay down for 40 minutes and blew off every deco stop on the way up.

The bottom line is, get as much info as you can on your buddy, and you will know if you really want to dive with that person. If you find out that you dont want to dive with them, but dont want to feel like an a$$hole by saying that they arent competent to dive with you, make them so uncomfortable that they make the decision themself.
 
I had no idea "righty=tighty; lefty=loosey" was that complicated.

Most 4 year-olds can handle this concept quite well with a bathroom sink faucet. Why can't someone who understands that getting it right is a life/death concept on a tank valve do the same?



But let's say you, or the deckhand on the boat, are functioning more like a 2-year old, and get it wrong. How many of us (and how often?) ever practice tilting the tank bottom with one hand so we can reach the valve with other hand, in the water?


Whatever, but back to insta-buddies (the topic, right?). I never have had one turn my air off. Nor have I had one jump in with his off, either. And only once have I had to assist one underwater (he signalled no air--actually it was low air--and took my alternate with no fuss, we made a normal shared-air ascent with a safety stop), it was a good experience/real-time drill for both of us. So with very few exceptions, my instas have been pretty good, including the new divers--they're almost better, since their butterflies make them less complacent about everything.
 
FWIW all of the posts here are valid and im sure they are all working fine for ya'll. I personally agree with Bob, a subtle conversation can pull alot of info off of someone about their level and experiances.

Personally i take it one step further to ensure i have a good dive with an instant buddy. Due to the fact that some people are full of sh!t when it comes to their experiance level and such, after i ask what mix they are breathing and see the size of their cylinder, I tend to explain the exact dive profile i want to dive. Are you going to be capable of doing a %%%ft dive for $# minutes and a slow/almost simulated deco ascent? Most will say "sure, no problem", and at that point i tell them if they hoover their gas and cut my dive time in half i will be expecting them to pay me for my dive......After all i didnt spend $125 for two 12 minute dives to 115ft. Usually if the guy or gal is a hoover or a newbie they will go ask for another buddy and i wont have to:)...

The last time a DM tried to buddy me up i got set up with 2 hot females who had no clue what they were doing and were diving air at 125'......I ended up convincing the DM to put me in SOLO.......Good thing too, those two decided it was a good idea to stay down for 40 minutes and blew off every deco stop on the way up.

The bottom line is, get as much info as you can on your buddy, and you will know if you really want to dive with that person. If you find out that you dont want to dive with them, but dont want to feel like an a$$hole by saying that they arent competent to dive with you, make them so uncomfortable that they make the decision themself.

Just curious...Trimix being more then a little unusual on rec trips, what mix would you have used for the 125ft dive? Or were you saying you would not have made the trip down to 125 at all.
 
Just curious...Trimix being more then a little unusual on rec trips, what mix would you have used for the 125ft dive? Or were you saying you would not have made the trip down to 125 at all.

Did i say Trimix???? I dont think i did. I was refering to nitrox, which we do in fact mix:)
 
Did i say Trimix???? I dont think i did. I was refering to nitrox, which we do in fact mix:)

What Nitrox Mix? Most people would not use 32% on a dive to 125 feet. If you got it, use it I suppose. 28% might be optimal, but a touch unusual.

Air is a perfectly reasonable gas for that depth and would only ever raise alarms with people who use trimix on everything over 100 feet. You seemed to think something was very wrong with Air, so I assumed you might be an anti "deep"-air guy.
 
What Nitrox Mix? Most people would not use 32% on a dive to 125 feet. If you got it, use it I suppose. 28% might be optimal, but a touch unusual.

Air is a perfectly reasonable gas for that depth and would only ever raise alarms with people who use trimix on everything over 100 feet. You seemed to think something was very wrong with Air, so I assumed you might be an anti "deep"-air guy.

I regularly use 30% for those dives, as do the majority of diver up my way. Could you see why i dont want to buddy with a diver on air? messing up my bottom time buddy, i paid money for this trip.
 
I regularly use 30% for those dives, as do the majority of diver up my way. Could you see why i dont want to buddy with a diver on air? messing up my bottom time buddy, i paid money for this trip.

Fair enough. It is only 1.43 and saves you 15 minutes of run time on 20 minutes at depth. Not a plan I would make, but not insane either.
 
Fair enough. It is only 1.43 and saves you 15 minutes of run time on 20 minutes at depth. Not a plan I would make, but not insane either.

It might be an insane plan since I basically do that plan all the time (30% at 120fsw). On second thought I think that would be the fallacy of asserting the consequent. Darn, I wish I could make up my minds.

Which brings up an important point. Don't forget to do a psychological profile on your prospective dive buddy on the way out to the dive site so you can root out those hard to diagnose DSM-IV conditions.

Or you can just dive and let dive.
:D
 
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Or you can just dive and let dive.
:D


This was kind of the point...People seem to have a lot of strange criteria they use to judge new buddies. I would much prefer a buddy that is inexperienced and needs a little skill work to someone inflexible and arrogant.

On another note:

I would have just planned the dive to 120 feet and used 30% too :wink:. I would also always dive with the ladies (at least until they started blowing off their deco).
 

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