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Help me choose my first rebreather Kiss Sidewinder vs Triton

Discussion in 'Rebreather Diving' started by Yamadaty, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. jale

    jale Barracuda

    I dive the Triton and the Sidekick. (and others :))
    Both are easy to travel with but only the Triton can be taken entirely in cabin as the metal mesh of the SK can be a no-go with some security staff.
    Both can just be added to your oc set-up.
    With the Triton, it is just one more hose for the dil, you clip and you go ("plug and play" unit :)).
    With the SK, same "plug and play" except that you need to fiddle for a few dives before you get the attachments and placement satisfying. To add the SK to SM calls also for a reconfiguration of tanks as the SK is taking one tank position.
    Think also about the o2 tank.
    With the Triton, the small o2 tank is on the unit and all is in one.
    With the SK, you can strap a small tank on the unit (and spend a few dives to know where it fits you) or you just can add it anywhere you like.
    This o2 tank is, in my opinion, the most important thing for travelling in Asia.
    Indeed, if you want to use small tanks, you need to travel with them but you must find centers boosting o2.
    If you don't take the tanks with you, you still must find a shop renting them.
    Of course, more and more places cater to rb diving but it often means increase in diving prices and less flexibility.
    Personaly, I found easier to look for shops providing nitrox as most of them are doing partial blending (membranes are a bit expensive). There you can get a s40 or a s80 at around 100b and be happy for a few dives. In that case, I found the Triton more adaptable.
    Think also about sorb :)
    Never ending problem solving :) :)
    Sorry for not talking about the Sidewinder but the point, as travelling diver, is.to think about local logistics and be able to adapt.
  2. rjack321

    rjack321 ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Port Orchard, WA
    Sorry I read Xdeep and my brain heard XCCR from IQsub so I edited that a couple minutes after reading it again

    I have a sidewinder and unless you need it I don't recommend it for wreck diving. Yes it "can" be done but there are far better choices, plus no CE means problems in France (in particular). Its also not that easy to add suit gas. "I can just use the Sump UK mount" - not really, you already have a 2L of O2 on your butt. Putting your light, 2L O2 and suit gas on your butt turns you into the Christmas tree real fast. And that's without the scrubber heaters which are not UN38.1 approved so you can't legally fly them.
  3. Yamadaty

    Yamadaty Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Ukraine
    So it looks like Sidewinder is not the droid I'm looking for after all. Regarding diving in France, I can skip it, I'm not sure what is the situation in the rest of the EU regarding none CE Rebreathers. If anyone is familiar with a subject please comment. Aside from CE certification anything that makes Triton a better unit over O2ptima?

    Rjack321 It looks like front-mounted one is the way to go for me since I don't want a back-mounted. Suits gas, light on the back, and O2 on the front. Looks double but if It still sounds like a bad idea please go ahead and speak your mind.
  4. rjack321

    rjack321 ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Port Orchard, WA
    I don't know why you are so resistant to a backmounted CCR - for wreck diving they are almost always the right tool for the job.

    With the Triton...
    I would butt mount your canister light and suit gas.
    O2 goes up front (as intended)
    Left and right SM tanks are your dil and BO
    First deco gas (50% usually) gets attached underneath the left BO tank (but has to get pushed to the side to accommodate the front mount CCR - never having dove a triton I'm not sure how successful this might be)
    Second deco gas (AL40 of 100%) goes on a leash clipped to your butt
    Suit heater goes on your right hip - if you end up in the Baltic or someplace like Narvik you will want the suit heat for the longer decos even if it messes up your SM tank on that side.

    So we are back to the Christmas tree of crap all over the place not unlike the sidewinder. And with a front mount unit you are basically 2/3s as "thick" as if you had just gone with a backmount CCR in the first place. Maybe you'll decide to only have bottom gas in one of your SM tanks and your first deco gas in the other. That at least gets rid of one tank that isn't even needed for wreck diving anyway. But 18/45 in one SM tank and 50% in the other is often an untrimmable mess.
  5. rddvet

    rddvet DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Florida
    Completely agree. I was hardcore sidemount for many years and really didn't want to go back to backmount for a rebreather, but it was my only realistic option. They definitely make the most sense for what he wants to do. I'd be looking at a JJ or the xccr (iqsub) if I lived in europe.
    Not going to lie. The one thing I hate about my unit is it's backmount. I suck at bm and tight spaces since I'm so used to sm. Last thursday my wife and I did the little circuit behind the bats. Its not crazy tight, but tight for me in backmount. I misjudged the ceiling ever so slightly and bumped my unit which then of course make me go straight down into the clay. I was able to correct it quickly for the most part, but I still ever so lightly contacted the clay like a noob and we had nice zero vis for a short while. In sm I never would have had a problem. The backmount component has been a decent adjustment for me. I went to sm after cavern so I never got as perfect in bm as I'd like and it showed the other day. It was also right as the circuit makes it back to the mainline so the clay followed us out to the mainline. I was hoping no other teams were coming by to see how strokey we were. I laughed that we looked like pigpen from the Peanuts with dust billowing off of us.
    Caveeagle likes this.
  6. Yamadaty

    Yamadaty Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Ukraine
    The only reason I'm resisting is that I love sidemount and everything about it. Diving in Europe is only part of the deal, Asia is high on the list because it's warm. At this point, I'm not really interested in Baltic. Besides that, I really want a travel-friendly unit and both JJ and xccr aren't.

    What do guys think is the correct application for a front-mounted rebreather?
  7. cerich

    cerich ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Georgia
    I really like my sidewinder, I prefer diving it. I dive my Inspo for wreck CCR and from boats.

    evandroairton and RainPilot like this.
  8. rjack321

    rjack321 ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Port Orchard, WA
    I have 2 units (BM and SM) and they definitely have different strengths and weaknesses!

    I can't imagine doing 240ft wreck dives in the 3C water of Lake Superior in SM. Its straight down from the mooring to the wreck, very limited penetration options and there are seriously fragile artifacts inside that aren't worth swimming near anyway (like 100 year old candy wrappers and the remnants of the body of the engineer). Then you go up after 20mins.

    Same, I dive my sidewinder in caves and usually for shore dives in the lake here when I'm scootering out to a wreck.

    Off my boat locally or on a Great Lakes charter? Nope. I suspect if I showed up with a sidewinder on some Great Lakes charters that would be the last time I was ever invited.
  9. JahJahwarrior

    JahJahwarrior ScubaBoard Supporter Staff Member ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: West Palm Beach, Fl
    The benefit of the chest mounted rebreathers and sidemount gear is they are more flexible and easy to throw in a bag. In Europe if you are trying to fly around with Ryanair, then you want tiny, flexible stuff to reduce luggage fees.

    The Triton is relatively unknown in US, I've never seen one with my own eyes, but I did read the product manual.

    Triton is mCCR with CMF, Choptima is eCCR, you could always add a needle valve but you cannot easily add a solenoid to an mCCR.

    Triton has 3 o2 sensors, Choptima has 4. I'm fine with just three.

    Triton appears to have the o2 sensors in one of the counter lungs, Choptima and most other rebreathers have them in a rigid part of the head, which makes me feel better.

    Triton the DSV is clamped on. I prefer the bayonet clips on the Choptima and many other rebreathers, so you can see the valves and disassemble for drying.

    Triton has a weird cartoon logo on the front. Choptima just has the name on the front.

    Triton uses a push and circlip connection for the scrubber and the hoses. Choptima and most other rebreathers, have a substantial connection, bayonet on the choptima, clamps on others...

    Both just have one size scrubber can, cannot be extended.

    If you have the funds for it, a Choptima head and can can be moved between backmount and sidemount. This would give you the stability and size of a backmount unit for deeper wreck dives, and the carryon capabilities of a triton, in one unit. There are many people who say the Choptima fits all those needs, but I do think when you add in suit heats, suit gas, etc, it starts to be easier to dive backmount. I'm not going to get rid of my backmount unit anytime soon.

    But if you are diving where you need CE, then that settles it, unfortunately.

    I believe Cerich was commenting that it doesn't scooter well because it hangs down below you in the middle, and that's where a scooter is going to be moving water, so you have to try and ride higher up than normal, which increases drag.
  10. Caveeagle

    Caveeagle Rebreather Pilot

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: High Springs, FL
    I have been diving a BM O2ptima and like it. I am planning to have the head converted for use as a O2ptimaCM so I can have the functionality of both and only have to maintain one set of sensors and controllers.

    a couple advantages that I don’t think have been mentioned.
    The O2ptima (and CM) can use either granular sorb, or an Extendair Cartridge.
    The O2ptimaCM can be ordered with a Nerd2 as the controller unit. That makes it about as compact and streamlined of a unit as you could imagine in my book.

    I have seen some of the testing work they recorded on video where one diver removed the entire unit and passed it to the buddy, who clipped in and hopped onto the loop pretty smoothly.

    not that it’s a great idea, but it shows how versatile it is,
    rjack321 likes this.

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