Hog harness: stop stuff from moving around waist belt?

[emeshuris]

I use these, they thread easily and bolt into the plate. No movement at all. Also you get a D ring on each. http://shop.scubatude.com/images/jt-wp-5 tech weight pocket(1).jpg

 

[Keith.M]

So I waded through this thread, interesting discussions for sure. But... I look at the OP situation. He was diving in the Caribbean, using a DSS steel plate and then adding 10 lbs?

He never mentioned what wetsuit he was diving, or at least I don't remember seeing it.

It sounds to me like the OP is a bit over weighted. At 20 dives I went to Cozumel. I was using 14 in an Oceanic Excursion II (buoyant BC with no weight) and that was more than enough. (2 mil shorty) Went to Hawaii after that and cut that down to 12.

Fast forward to this year, went diving out of Panama City Beach. Now a steel plate, 5.5 lbs, and used 4 lbs and had no issue holding a safety stop, may have been able to drop another 2, but seemed pretty dialed in. Those 4 lbs were non ditchable. Actually threaded them on the lower cam band.

As a side note, does anyone else do that? I don't really see the need to attach pockets to the cam band when I can thread the weight right on the band.

In my regular cold water diving with more exposure protection, I then go to 10 lbs. on a rubber weight belt, love that.

 

[gcarter]

So I waded through this thread, interesting discussions for sure. But... I look at the OP situation. He was diving in the Caribbean, using a DSS steel plate and then adding 10 lbs?

He never mentioned what wetsuit he was diving, or at least I don't remember seeing it.

It sounds to me like the OP is a bit over weighted. At 20 dives I went to Cozumel. I was using 14 in an Oceanic Excursion II (buoyant BC with no weight) and that was more than enough. (2 mil shorty) Went to Hawaii after that and cut that down to 12.

Fast forward to this year, went diving out of Panama City Beach. Now a steel plate, 5.5 lbs, and used 4 lbs and had no issue holding a safety stop, may have been able to drop another 2, but seemed pretty dialed in. Those 4 lbs were non ditchable. Actually threaded them on the lower cam band.

As a side note, does anyone else do that? I don't really see the need to attach pockets to the cam band when I can thread the weight right on the band.

In my regular cold water diving with more exposure protection, I then go to 10 lbs. on a rubber weight belt, love that.

Threading the weights directly on the cam band impacts the grip it has on the tank much more than a pocket would. In addition, it can damage the finish on the tank.

 

[TSandM]

I like my cambands weights in pockets, because I can take them out, and that makes the rig easier to move around to swap tanks or load stuff in the car.

 

[stuartv]

So I waded through this thread, interesting discussions for sure. But... I look at the OP situation. He was diving in the Caribbean, using a DSS steel plate and then adding 10 lbs?

I was wearing a new 3/2 full suit. I did 4 ocean dives. I started with 6 pounds. I was swimming head down to hold a SS at the end. I went to 8 pounds for the next dive and that seemed okay, but it was so shallow, I didn't really have to do a SS at the end, and I ended up getting out with close to 1000 psi left, so I though 8 was okay. The next dive (2 days later), I went with 8 #. At the end, I was down to about 400 psi and I ended up gradually floating to the surface when I should have been holding my SS. It was difficult to swim back down. A full exhale was not enough by itself. The last dive, I went with 10 # and it seemed perfect. No trouble at all just hanging out at 15' depth at the end.

So, I don't *think* I was overweighted. I was definitely surprised it took that much weight. I took the exact same rig to the pool before I went to MX and in the pool I had no weight at all (other than the SS BP, obviously) and seemed slightly overweighted. Though, in the pool, I did not dump my air to get the tank down to 500 psi. I got out of the pool with 1300 - 1400 psi left. Based on that and input from here on SB, I was expecting to only use 4 - 6 # in the ocean - which is why I started with 6 on the first dive.

My suit seems to seal very well, so it may also be the case that I was swimming with some air trapped in it. The very first dive, as I was trying to get down (with 6 #), the DM swam up behind me and pulled on the back of the neck of my suit to "burp" it. I could feel a decent little chunk of air come out then.

---------- Post added January 9th, 2015 at 09:01 AM ----------

I use these, they thread easily and bolt into the plate. No movement at all. Also you get a D ring on each. http://shop.scubatude.com/images/jt-wp-5 tech weight pocket(1).jpg

But, $40 per pocket?! I'll pass. XS Scuba for $10 each is good for me.

---------- Post added January 9th, 2015 at 09:02 AM ----------

Threading the weights directly on the cam band impacts the grip it has on the tank much more than a pocket would. In addition, it can damage the finish on the tank.

And getting a weigh on the cam side of the strap would also be a big PITA, I think.

 

[emeshuris]

Yes they are a bit expensive, but they are well made. I paid 50$ for both. The xscuba pockets break very quickly if you use them.

 

[stuartv]

Yes they are a bit expensive, but they are well made. I paid 50$ for both. The xscuba pockets break very quickly if you use them.

What's to break? Mine just have a Velcro flap on the front, a sewn (no Velcro) belt loop on the back, and that's it?

I do think I might use a soldering iron to burn a couple of holes through the belt loop and then thread some bungee cord through and tie a loop to go through the belt loop and around the front, so it ensures the flap can't just come open accidentally and let a weight fall out. Or maybe burn no holes and put the bungee around it horizontally, instead of vertically. I'll have to just mess with it and see.

 

[tbone1004]

each 500psi of the AL80 is about 1lb of buoyancy, so if you were fine when you got out with 1500, you should have only had to add 2-3lbs to compensate for the weight of the gas.

Going from pool to ocean is impossible to give an approximation without knowing your total body displacement, but adding 6-8lbs isn't abnormal. The most important thing to take out of your last post for you is to read the last two sentences. One of the first things you should always do when getting in the water with a wetsuit is fully flood the suit. It's a safety thing for deep dives because the air pockets will create a vacuum that can cause damage to the skin, it is a comfort thing, air doesn't insulate particularly well, water does, and it can create issues with buoyancy like you experienced. In a 3/2 with a SS BP/W on an AL80, you are sans STA, so I can see 6-8lbs being realistic to get down. 10 is a probably a little too much and if you flooded the suit all the way you probably would have been fine with the 8lbs especially if your body is of larger volume.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I was wearing a new 3/2 full suit. I did 4 ocean dives. I started with 6 pounds. I was swimming head down to hold a SS at the end. I went to 8 pounds for the next dive and that seemed okay, but it was so shallow, I didn't really have to do a SS at the end, and I ended up getting out with close to 1000 psi left, so I though 8 was okay. The next dive (2 days later), I went with 8 #. At the end, I was down to about 400 psi and I ended up gradually floating to the surface when I should have been holding my SS. It was difficult to swim back down. A full exhale was not enough by itself. The last dive, I went with 10 # and it seemed perfect. No trouble at all just hanging out at 15' depth at the end.

So, I don't *think* I was overweighted. I was definitely surprised it took that much weight. I took the exact same rig to the pool before I went to MX and in the pool I had no weight at all (other than the SS BP, obviously) and seemed slightly overweighted. Though, in the pool, I did not dump my air to get the tank down to 500 psi. I got out of the pool with 1300 - 1400 psi left. Based on that and input from here on SB, I was expecting to only use 4 - 6 # in the ocean - which is why I started with 6 on the first dive.

My suit seems to seal very well, so it may also be the case that I was swimming with some air trapped in it. The very first dive, as I was trying to get down (with 6 #), the DM swam up behind me and pulled on the back of the neck of my suit to "burp" it. I could feel a decent little chunk of air come out then.

Despite you having come a long way, I think you will still shed a few pounds of lead as time goes on. Even though you've tried exhaling, maybe you're kicking/moving more than you realize? Who knows. In any case, don't sweat it. A couple of pounds more or a couple of pounds less is not a big deal. Excessive lead is a bad thing, but how little lead you can carry is no more a badge of honor than one's low SAC rate. Who cares, so long as it doesn't have a significant impact on your diving. If I recall, you're around 6 ft in height, so your suit would be larger and thus more buoyant than mine; and so it makes sense you'd carry more lead than I would.

Just for the sake of comparison, in a well-worn 3/2 mm Medium-Large suit in a DSS steel plate rig with an Al 80, I carry an extra 2-4 pounds of lead, distributed between two (more or less non-ditchable) pockets on the cambands. (I didn't have this rig when the suit was new, so I can't comment on how much buoyancy it has lost.) Two pounds is sufficient for me to hold a safety stop with a near-empty tank, but I have found that vacation destination dive ops often will not have 1-lb. weights on hand, so I suck it up and carry a total of 4 lbs. of lead.

In a newer 5/4 suit of the same brand (Bare), I carry a total of 8 lbs. of lead with the DSS rig. On the occasions when I add a hooded vest beneath the 5/4, I bump it up to 10 lbs.

I think in time you will shed a couple more pounds of lead. But don't sweat it. You seem to be doing GREAT.

 

[stuartv]

air doesn't insulate particularly well, water does

I didn't think that was correct. But, I checked first to be sure. Air is definitely a better thermal insulator than water.

The Physics of Scuba Diving


The rest of what you said makes sense. I will definitely try to remember to completely flood my suit when I get in, in the future. Oh, and I guess I qualify as "large body volume". 6' 1", 230 #, chest on the big side for my height.

---------- Post added January 9th, 2015 at 09:23 AM ----------

I think in time you will shed a couple more pounds of lead. But don't sweat it. You seem to be doing GREAT.

Thanks, Lorenzoid! I don't feel like I'm sweating it so much as always trying to improve where and what I can.

I couldn't figure out why 8 # seemed okay on the first day and then not enough on the second day, but I suspect tbone may have nailed that - not completely flooding my suit at the start of that dive with only 8#.

My next chance to get in the ocean is probably not going to be until Hawaii in March. I will try starting with 8# there and remembering to fully flood my suit and see how it goes.

Oh, and one of my instructors forewarned me that many dive ops don't have 1# weights, so I actually carried 4 x 1 # weights with, just in case. I ended up using them on both days of ocean dives. Added 2 x 1 # to my weight pockets after the first dive each day to get the extra 2 #s I wanted. More convenient than bugging the boat guy to get the weights back out so I could swap what I had for bigger ones.