How do you know if a dive instructor/shop is reputable and safe?

[rizzo587]

A situation has come up that I am unsure how to handle. I was told very negative things about a dive shop and their instructor and do not know how to go about finding out what is true or not. Which made me think how do most divers find out if a shop is reputable and safe. I am new to diving, less than 2 years, and so I do not have the advantage of experience to know how to proceed. I am withholding the names because I do not know whether the accusations are true and don't want to damage anyone's reputation.

I was certified through a dive shop that I totally trust, and have only gone through them. I am helping to find a shop for a group of people to get certified, and for monetary reasons they will not go through the shop I went to. A friend, I'll call Joe, is affiliated with a chain of dive shops that has multiple locations, I'll call it Company X. He was certified through location 'A' within last 3 years and just got an instructors certificate. Initially the group was going to get certified through location 'A', and Joe was going to teach the class. But there was a problem getting Location A manager to return phone calls and emails so it was decided it wouldn't be good to go there. I was recommended by two people to try the location B. One of them goes to the shop frequently and her boyfriend was certified through them. The other person is friends with the manager. I let Joe know that the group was looking to get certified at location B. He told me he didn't recommend that because that shop was not good. He said the instructors were bad and unsafe, and that the shop mishandled an accident recently. Joe recommended that we go through Company Y and that he could teach the class.

I am unsure of how to know whether it is true that Company A, Location B is really bad. Joe told me that I shouldn't tell anyone he told me this and that if people knew he said something it would get him in trouble. I wasn't able to get any details about what exactly happened or why he believes the instructors are bad or unsafe.

I would appreciate any advice I can get. Thanks.

 

[NateS]

Sounds like it's in his best interest to tell you to go where he teaches the class.

I had a similar experience. I planned to go to Lighthouse Diving in Seattle (I feel fine dropping the names because everything I'm saying are 1st hand facts). I called 2 times and sent 2 emails and was assured they could fit my group of 4 in the dates we have available. I called a 3rd time and sent a 3rd email. That was 17 days ago, I still haven't heard back from them!

I got a recommendation from someone on these forums for Bellevue Divers. They were able to fit us in, even though 4 of us miss the first class and 2 of us miss the second (we had to pay for semi-private make up classes, but will join the group classes after that). They are very responsive and we'll be buying some gear from them, using their student discount. It was more a bit expensive than Lighthouse, but I hope we get better training in return.

I don't think it's possible to know what kind of training you get unless you get a recommendation, at which point you are just back to trusting Joe.

 

[flyin01]

Kind of funny that "Joe" doesn't recommend any place that he doesn't teach for. Check for Facebook and yelp reviews and ask for recommendations from people here. That would be a good start.

 

[scagrotto]

Sounds a lot like sour grapes to me. I'm not entirely clear on who's who, but are locations A & B both run by company X? If so I'd expect them to be somewhat similar, and it would also explain why Joe wouldn't want people to know what he's saying. If he has no professional relationship with B why is he worried if people know what he said if he's telling the truth?

If you're already certified you should be able to get a pretty good feel for the potential instructor by talking with them. If they won't give you plenty of time while trying to sell several certifications you can probably figure on even less attention once they've got your money. Giving you plenty of time to talk ans ask questions isn't a guarantee, but it's a decent sign.

You can also have a look at this thread on how to find a good instructor:
How to find an excellent SCUBA class

 

[redacted]

OW instruction is a lot like kindergarten. They all get you your plastic card so you can move on. There are some that are especially good and some that are especially bad; but if you are unable to determine the difference (or just don't care) then you might as well go with so other difference like service or price.

 

[boulderjohn]

Shops do a lot of things, and they do some better than others. In my town, we have two shops, and they are very different. One does some things very well and other things not so well. The other shop is exactly the opposite, doing well in the services where the other shop does poorly and doing poorly in the services where the other shop does well. An individual shop can also have a hiccup in an area where it usually does well do to some unusual problem.

Now, some issues can be related to policy. For example, I have it on good authority that a chain of shops in your area has a policy of putting the lead equivalent of 20% of a student's body weight on them for OW classes and then planting them firmly on the bottom of the pool on their knees for instruction. Consequently, students come out of their programs with no buoyancy skills whatsoever. If it turns out to be as true as I have been led to believe, I would avoid using them for instruction at all costs. How would you know? Simple. If you are considering OW instruction with them, you ask them about that policy.

If I were you, I would investigate the specific issues of concern through a pretty good interrogation of the people. Go in and ask questions. Look around. I have a student right now who did something like that. When she moved into town, she went into a shop in our area with her boyfriend and started out just looking around with him. She had trouble getting much attention from the staff on duty. When they finally got around to talking to the male employee on duty, he directed his comments directly to the boyfriend, talking about the program to him as if she were just his cheerleader. In fact, she was an experienced diver looking for technical training. He had just completed his OW certification. That experience told her she needed to go somewhere else.

 

[Centrals]

What is your definition for "friend"? If "Joe" is my friend then I would trust him.
Perhaps U2 have to sit down and talk it over and keep the "secret" yourself.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

It's generally a good idea to treat any shop or instructor like an employee you are thinking of hiring. They will be working for you after all. Do your own homework and interview them. Many new divers don't know what questions to ask. There are some excellent threads in the new divers forum on how to do this. I also have an entire chapter in my book with over 20 questions for both shops and instructors you can ask. It's available on amazon. A link is in my signature line. While recommendations from friends are good there may also be some conflict of interest if they are teaching the class.

 

[TMHeimer]

Prior to OW course I had no idea what was good or bad in a shop. Even with todays technology (as opposed to 2005....), I would guess a fair % of people starting out are just like I was. I don't think there is any quick way to check out a shop other than going in and asking questions, as was suggested. Prior to that a good idea would be to check out their website, ask on SB for advice from those in that area, etc. There are shops in New York, Florida and Mississippi that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend to anyone (as well as our own here in NS of course). But I have spent a lot of time in these shops getting fills, etc.--and taking a lot of courses from one of them. Even so, I don't know every instructor and their philosophies at these shops. There are a couple at our own shop I have not assisted yet (we have 20 some on staff).

 

[darrenlowjq]

Sounds a lot like sour grapes to me. I'm not entirely clear on who's who, but are locations A & B both run by company X? If so I'd expect them to be somewhat similar, and it would also explain why Joe wouldn't want people to know what he's saying. If he has no professional relationship with B why is he worried if people know what he said if he's telling the truth?

I wouldn't be so quick as to judge this as being borne out of ill-intent. My local diving scene has a fair bit of dive industry politics going on and some people might not want to get involved in any subsequent squabbling that results from their name being out there on a negative comment on another shop's way of doing things, even if nothing that was said was untrue. Besides PADI has as part of their standards that PADI pros are not to disparage other industry folks and I imagine other agencies may have such a clause as well.

---------- Post added September 13th, 2015 at 01:38 PM ----------

@OP Since you know someone who was trained through that shop, how about going diving with that person, if that is an option available to you. You can observe first-hand at least one sample of the quality of students that they turn out, which is better than nothing. No better endorsement for a shop's training than a graduate of that training having great skills.