i need to float

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Ill be honest in that when I started diving I could not swim 5 feet and if my feet were not on the bottom I was S.O.L. I signed up for the diving without reading the requirements and had done a Discover Scuba which does not require one to be a good swimmer. Well once I read the requirements I said Oh Crap and went to the pool to learn to swim. To my disappointment nothing worked and so I called my LDS to cancel classes. My instructor talked me into coming in to swim in his pool and he worked with me. Being a former navy seal I felt comfortable in his abilities so I reluctantly agreed. He showed me how to do the float (Exactly as Walter mentioned above.) and I said ok so I went out tried it and found it worked.

Now your second question is made for several answers. Why is a 10 minute floar necessary? Well the most important reason above all else is to show you are confident in water you can not touch in. In your case you have a difficult time floating. By achieving the float it demonstrates you are capable of both survival in the absolute worse case scenario of gear failure and also shows in your case you can identify a problem (Difficulty floating) and overcome it (Learning to float) both of which is extremely important in an aquatic environment.

I can tell you as I never knew how to swim I over came and adapted and learned to get by and then like anything else in life I learned to build on what I learned and as a result I self taught myself how to swim (After my instructor of course taught me how to float) and today I am proudly a dive master. Though titles in the scuba world are often as heated in debate as any other aspect of life I can say earning divemaster was not something to be just proud of as another step in life. It proved that I could adapt and overcome my inabilities. I could problem solve what I had previously saw as impossible and I learned how to never say I could not achieve anything.

I have faith now that scuba is not limited to just a select few. Its available to everyone with exceptions to certain medical conditions. So dont write off scuba yet. Just ask around and I assure you someone somewhere will be wiling to help you.
 
After reading through all of this, is there any way for actually negatively-buoyant guys to get by? I got my cert just fine treading, but in terms of actual floating that wasn't going to happen. At that time, I could take a full breath including doing some packing, and if I stopped moving I literally would drop to the point where there was abotu 18" of pool water above my highest point. Made for some fun times freediving, and a non-issue now since I've put on some padding, but I'm still curious if there were any other tips/tricks for people in that situation.
 
I probably should have failed mine but my OW instructor allowed me to wear my spring suit because we did our float/tread water (which were 2 separate things for us) tests at the end of one of the confined class days and I didn't have any swim trunks and was already freezing. I explained to him that I sink completely and can't float in fresh water. To the point where I drop at least a whole foot below the surface. (I can just barely float in salt water.)

The other class members thought it was funny to talk to me and watch me sink as I tried to answer them even with my wetsuit on.

I wish I had known about drown-proofing then...

In the PADI OW and DM classes, if exposure protection is necessary, then you must also wear suitable weight to counteract the buoancy.

Also, I don't believe drown-proofing as described in this forum is allowed, since you must keep your head above water.

I think the purpose of the exercise is to tread water, probably best to stop trying to find a way to cheat and just practice treading water.
 
Also, I don't believe drown-proofing as described in this forum is allowed, since you must keep your head above water.

I think the purpose of the exercise is to tread water, probably best to stop trying to find a way to cheat and just practice treading water.
AFAIK, the PADI guidelines state that the student can float and/or tread water for 10 minutes, using any technique he/she wants.
By PADI standards, face-in-the-water drown-proofing should be OK.
 
Also, I don't believe drown-proofing as described in this forum is allowed, since you must keep your head above water.

I think the purpose of the exercise is to tread water, probably best to stop trying to find a way to cheat and just practice treading water.

Drown-proofing is allowed. It is not cheating.

From the 2011 PADI DiveMaster Course Instructor Guide:

15-minute Tread
Tread water, drown-proof, bob or float using no aids and wearing only a swimsuit for 15 minutes, with hands (not arms) out of the water during the last two minutes.

From the PADI Open Water Course Instructor Guide:

Before Open Water Dive 2, have student divers demonstrate that they can comfortably maintain themselves in water too deep in which to stand by completing a 10-minute swim/float without using any swim aids.

 
After reading through all of this, is there any way for actually negatively-buoyant guys to get by? I got my cert just fine treading, but in terms of actual floating that wasn't going to happen. At that time, I could take a full breath including doing some packing, and if I stopped moving I literally would drop to the point where there was abotu 18" of pool water above my highest point. Made for some fun times freediving, and a non-issue now since I've put on some padding, but I'm still curious if there were any other tips/tricks for people in that situation.

Gain some weight? It is all about water displacement....you will need more volume, so gaining weight is a solution. I am a floater, so the floating tests were easy....surface dives, not so easy. I wish that I had an easy solution, but if you fill your lungs as full as possible and you still sink, then you need to displace a greater volume of water which is the difficult part.
 
Gain some weight? It is all about water displacement....you will need more volume, so gaining weight is a solution. ….

You forgot one important piece in that equation. It is all about the displacement to mass ratio. More specifically, is that ratio less than water.

Muscle density is 1.06 g/ml. Fat density is ~0.9g/ml. One liter of fat would weight 0.9 kg. To gain 1 Kg, or 2.2 Lbs, of buoyancy in fresh water by increasing fat would require about 10 Liters. That’s more than 2½ gallons jugs full of fat. As much fun as that might be during the holidays, I suspect that the new wardrobe cost alone would give you pause. Get a wetsuit and call it good.

See: Google Answers: Muscle Density vs. Fat Density
 
I think the purpose of the exercise is to tread water, probably best to stop trying to find a way to cheat and just practice treading water.

My initial training (NAUI) in 1986 required us to tread water (wrists out of water), perform drownproofing (each of three or four techniques including the Lanoue technique and the "mafia float"), *and* float on our backs—each for a specified number of minutes.

All of these skills are good skills to know, I think.

Safe Diving,

rx7diver

P.S. BTW, I was 31 years old, still in extremely good shape, and a *serious* sinker when I began my scuba training. I absolutely struggled with the above skills, especially with the back float. I eventually succeeded with the back float by following a couple of suggestions: (1) breathe very deeply, not just in the shoulders but in the stomach as well (i.e., "pooch" out your gut), (2) extend your arms above your head as far as possible inline with your body and arch your back, (3) totally relax every muscle in your body except what you need to breathe with and exhale very quickly and immediately quickly inhale and then hold your breath till the next breath.
 
Like I said at the end of my first post, non-issue now :) Lost enough muscle mass and gained enough fat to make me about neutral at 0' now. But good to know that there's not too much to do in that case other than slap on a wetsuit.

You forgot one important piece in that equation. It is all about the displacement to mass ratio. More specifically, is that ratio less than water.

Muscle density is 1.06 g/ml. Fat density is ~0.9g/ml. One liter of fat would weight 0.9 kg. To gain 1 Kg, or 2.2 Lbs, of buoyancy in fresh water by increasing fat would require about 10 Liters. That’s more than 2½ gallons jugs full of fat. As much fun as that might be during the holidays, I suspect that the new wardrobe cost alone would give you pause. Get a wetsuit and call it good.

See: Google Answers: Muscle Density vs. Fat Density
 
Sorry, guess I'm wrong about the PADI guidelines. I am not an instructor, and when I did my OW/DM, I was instructed that I needed to keep my head above water.

So, definitely "cheating" is the wrong word, but perhaps it is better to practice treading water rather than "getting by with the bare minimum"
 
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