If you could change one thing about dive training...

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

When I was taking basic cave training in a high flow area, I waved my hand once for stability, and my cave instructor made that very, very clear. Never did it again.

Rock on .. I remember.

 

[TMHeimer]

I have mixed feelings about the "no hands/arms for swimming" strongly-worded suggestion.

• Anyone who learns to scuba-dive and propel fins-only will be a much stronger and better equipped diver long-term. It will help motivate you to learn proper finning techniques, including how to turn, go backwards, and more. More importantly, it leaves your hands free for other things, like scuba-equipment (bcd inflator) and accessories (flashlights, compass, camera).
• Conversely, I also own and usually wear "fin gloves," which help boost the propulsion power from my hands. Recently I've mostly forced myself to avoid using them (for reasons in previous point, but still use them on the surface for propulsion, especially since I sometimes start to get leg-cramps towards the end of dives (maybe because of bad finning, which I'm working on). That said, I still find using your hands can be quite useful for reversing and turning, and to give me a break when I have cramps.

Ultimately, I don't think I ever got an adequate explanation of the (1) "why" around avoiding using your hands for propulsion and (2) what to do instead. I think most of the explanation I got was that hands were less effective for propulsion and that advanced divers usually don't use their hands. That's a rather useless explanation.

I agree here. Only thing I'd add to your first point is regarding the basic flutter kick. If you can't already to that right I have a problem with you entering the OW course. As I've said before, when I first saw a student doing the "bicycle" kick in the pool I had no idea what he was trying to do-- maybe show off with some really cool advanced kicking??? Learning the frog and other kicks is another story.

 

[SlugLife]

The OW/AOW etc. courses of today are designed for vacation/occasional divers, who are 90%** of divers, and this is perfectly fine. However, vacation divers do not have the time either the dedication to learn difficult techniques.

If you are so interested in mastering scuba diving techniques (and here I am not speaking only about propulsion), it means that you have a genuine curiosity and interest in this activity, which is cool! But it would help if you looked for different products. Specifically, some tech-oriented instructors/courses; scuba-board is full of suggestions in this regard; you just need to search

**This number comes from my fantasy; I have no idea of the real proportion, but I am rather sure it is a vast majority.

By the time someone takes their second class, I would expect them to be interested in more than the occasional vacation dive. That said, without being too judgmental of my classmates, I'm typically much better prepared and have my own equipment. I feel like the class named "Advanced Open Water Diver" should be called "intermediate open diver." However, you'd need all agencies to change then name at the same time, otherwise none of them would do it.

A diver cannot be certified as a cave diver if they use their hands for propulsion or stability.

Absolutely correct. Although only a small percentage of divers will ever get to cave-diver. That said, the more you build up bad-habits, the harder they are to break or the more time you've wasted not practicing good ones.

I agree here. Only thing I'd add to your first point is regarding the basic flutter kick. If you can't already to that right I have a problem with you entering the OW course. As I've said before, when I first saw a student doing the "bicycle" kick in the pool I had no idea what he was trying to do-- maybe show off with some really cool advanced kicking??? Learning the frog and other kicks is another story.

I did flutter-kick without really knowing I was doing it. I suspect my form could use improvement, at some point I'll drop money on a go-pro so I can record myself and see how good or bad it looks. Frog kick on the other hand .... hah ... I don't want to look!

 

[boulderjohn]

By the time someone takes their second class, I would expect them to be interested in more than the occasional vacation dive.

For much of the world, vacation diving is the only real option. Look at a map of the United States and ask where the divers in most of the states are diving, and when they are doing that diving.

According to DEMA statistics, the state in which I live (Colorado) has for decades been among the top 3 states for divers per capita. The two best dive sites I know of in the state are south of Denver, both low visibility reservoirs, one 21 feet deep and the other about 35 feet early in the season. If we want better diving, we either drive to Utah for a 65 foot thermal pool or to New Mexico for an 80 foot sinkhole. (Some of us have private access to a larger sinkhole in New Mexico.) Those are typically 6 hour drives for the average Colorado diver.

So we joke that our state motto is that we are just a plane flight away from great scuba, and that pretty much means on vacation. Since you cannot even get AOW by staying in state, that is when and where most people get AOW.

I was strictly a vacation diver until I retired--fortunately I was able to retire young. I had no real choice in the matter.

 

[ginti]

By the time someone takes their second class, I would expect them to be interested in more than the occasional vacation dive.

It depends on how you define an occasional diver. Let's do it in another way. Many divers are unwilling to practice and train out of a scuba class; these guys are the vast majority out there. Rec classes are meant to help this kind of divers to progress safely, without exercising and training out of classes. This way, divers can go deeper, see a bit of current, etc., with minimum effort.

Proper finning techniques, excellent trim and buoyancy control, awareness etc., really depend on practice, which means a diver need to practice a lot out of classes. In other words, a tiny minority of divers is willing to dedicate so much effort and time, and because of these reasons, these skills are not included in rec courses. These skills constitute the core of tech-oriented courses.

This approach is relatively safe (comparable to jogging and vehicle accidents: Scuba diving fatalities - Wikipedia). But it's for sure possible and desirable to improve the safety records.

For what matters, I underline again that I am against the classic approach of rec agencies; I like the GUE approach, which focuses on teaching proper skills from the beginning, without too much effort for the students (but with a lot of effort to become an instructor). There are instructors of other agencies following the same approach, but I cannot quantify them.

Anyway, not recognising that rec classes are designed with specific purposes inevitably leads to biases. My point was to highlight these purposes and nothing more.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Generally when I see people using their hands it's because they're not particularly exuding competence in their core skills.

Generally, except when there are exceptions that others write they would use hands for. Hands are useful things to use on a dive. In this video I use my hand to change the direction I am facing as my legs are crossed so finning not available. Nothing wrong with my core skills.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Generally, except when there are exceptions that others write they would use hands for. Hands are useful things to use on a dive. In this video I use my hand to change the direction I am facing as my legs are crossed so finning not available. Nothing wrong with my core skills.

What's a Buddha hover useful for?

 

[Blackcrusader]

What's a Buddha hover useful for?

Lot's of uses. Does it matter? For having fun it's called fun diving for a reason. I can see much better and look around much easier when like this and away from a wall. Useful for fast drift diving where I get pushed along faster.

 

[boulderjohn]

Generally, except when there are exceptions that others write they would use hands for. Hands are useful things to use on a dive. In this video I use my hand to change the direction I am facing as my legs are crossed so finning not available. Nothing wrong with my core skills.

What is the value of the crossed legs?

 

[ginti]

Lot's of uses. Does it matter? For having fun it's called fun diving for a reason.

It does, and having fun is not a good reason. People pay to learn how to be safe if they dive occasionally, and to master precision and control if they are very dedicated. Everything else - that is, the fun part - they do it on their own. This is what people ask today*.

For sure the diving-teaching industry can improve, but any improvement must take into account what people want.

*never heard a person saying "hey, I would spend half of my salary to learn using my hands underwater"... but I will change my mind if someone has data to prove me wrong.