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If you dive alone, you die alone ...

Discussion in 'Solo Divers' started by BCSGratefulDiver, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. Dnaber

    Dnaber Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: North Florida
    Mark, I can't find the actual prerequisites on the Padi website. And I'm pretty sure Padi wouldn't have issued me a card unless I meet the minimun requirements :rofl3:. Again I just saw it as further training and extending my personal safety.
  2. Landstander

    Landstander Solo Diver

    That's still accurate, unless you're currently enrolled in their Divemaster program. 60 dives is deemed sufficient in that case, presumably because it's paired with the additional DM training.
  3. markmud

    markmud Self Reliant Diver--On All Dives. ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: South Lebanon, Ohio
    Hi Dnaber,

    Lots of people :rofl3: at me until I prove them wrong. The PADI website does not list the prerequisites, course curriculum, or milestones.

    Your instructor must have had a good reason to violate PADI standards; maybe there was a caveat listed for retired military in the curriculum; otherwise, he may have been starving and needed the money from your training and profit from your purchase of redundant gear (I am just guessing?).

    northernone likes this.
  4. MichaelMc

    MichaelMc Divemaster Candidate

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Berkeley, CA
    I think the argument would be that you are making it harder for the boat to deal smoothly and with out drama with qualified and equip'ed solo divers by making a big show about it. It seems similar to starting a public debate on the dive boat over fins or BC types just for fun.

    If we assume most of the divers are rather new, < 25 dives, its unlikely they are experienced enough to handle the extra gear well. So they are not at the point of your speech doing them much good, and the less astute among them may get part of the message, no buddy, but not all of it, trained and equip'ed.

    If you're poking the scuba police for entertainment, that seems pointless and harmful. If you're worried the less astute will see you alone and think they can do that too, with out training or gear, that seems different; but if that's your motive, your approach seems off.

    Edit: Better would seem telling the boat quietly, and allowing the boat to say "Mark has advanced training and equipment for solo diving and will be diving that way." if the boat wants to.

    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
    BCSGratefulDiver, Kharon and Patoux01 like this.
  5. tilikum

    tilikum Banned

    Every dive boat I have been on has "that guy". Try not to be "that guy".
  6. markmud

    markmud Self Reliant Diver--On All Dives. ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: South Lebanon, Ohio
    Hi Michael,

    Thanks for your response. Your criticism is very well stated and you stated it in a non-combative format. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to converse (or type) with you about this topic.

    I disagree with your conclusions. My elevator speech is no longer than a short sentence with a subordinate clause. The crew on a dive boat does not make the rules; however, especially businesses and sometimes governments, react to push-back from patrons (or citizens). The owner of a boat, and its captain, have the right to make decisions on how their vessel operates. In the US (and most other places), the captain is responsible for the safety of all souls aboard. As a paying passenger, we must follow the rules.

    The push-back regarding PADIs Self-Reliant cert, whether it is a Solo cert or not, was resolved when SDI felt the need to create a matrix to end the confusion between the relationships between many certs from different agencies and how they compare to a competitor's cert. SDI has Self-Reliant, SDI's solo cert, and SSI's Independent Diver on the same line. Push-back does work.

    I have never received negative criticism from anyone on a dive boat about my very short elevator speech. Usually, I am asked questions regarding my gear, the certification process, and the apparent contradiction between the curriculum regarding buddy diving in OW class, and the very same agencies issuing solo certifications.

    It is fun to discuss diving with interested divers.

    Your description of the newb divers seems to be implying that they are fragile little buttercups who need protection from the truth. The facts are that three agencies who work under the RSTC umbrella do have certification protocols for Solo Divers. These are public courses and they are documented with official ID cards. We should not be afraid to discuss this certification nor should we be closeted to protect the buttercups amongst us. Buttercups should learn about the negative side of buddy diving up front. They should be allowed to make informed decisions about their safety.

    You may believe that the buddy system is the end-all and safe. I believe it to be a marketing ploy to convince would-be dependent divers to go ahead and get that OW c-card. Buddy skills really are not taught, at least by the agency that I certified with, until tec40 (and also self-reliant). Between solo training and tec40, I feel I now have the "official party line" regarding the duties and responsibilities of buddy diving. I had to perform those duties u/w in a task-loaded environment under the supervision of an instructor.

    I would like to advocate for a new course and c-card. I think RSTC should push it down to the certification agencies. This course should be a prerequisite for AOW. It should be called: Buddy Diver; Duties and responsibilities of a Buddy Diver team. The certification agencies could get rid of their "basket weaving" type certifications if they don't want to add another card to their catalog.

    As for poking the SCUBA police being harmful: Hogwash. Flashing one's Solo Cert is not harmful. Asking the captain permission to solo dive off his/her boat is not harmful, demeaning, or crass.

    And now some constructive criticism for you: Large organizations tend to do things that seem to be in their best interest to the detriment of the greater community itself. Group think and rule by anointed committee can be deleterious. Lets look at history. Nitrox was considered voodoo gas by the cert agencies except for one. Solo diving was considered a death-wish by the industry, except for SDI. Computers were considered unreliable gadgets. BCs were the scourge of the industry.

    Bottom-up feedback from a few so-called loud-mouths has changed the diving industry. Thank you Brett Gilliam, et allia, for pushing back against your self-proclaimed betters.

    The diving industry is bleeding people like me who have enough experience to dive safely in many recreational environments. We are leaving mainly because the industry caters to buttercups. I am not a buttercup muppet recreational diver. We are leaving because a DM with 80 dives is telling me how to rig my kit. A kit that was inspected and tested (several times) under the supervision of a certified Master Scuba Diver Trainer (Course Director and accomplished tech diver).

    When you become a DM, don't be that DM.

    Sorry about the long response; I hope it was not too boring.


  7. markmud

    markmud Self Reliant Diver--On All Dives. ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: South Lebanon, Ohio
    Hi Tilikum,

    When did we dive together? When we dived together, how was I "that guy"?

    I am approaching 200 dives in cold water (48 degrees), tropical water, wrecks, South Pacific, Central Pacific, East Pacific (Monterey to Costa Rica), the Carribean, the Atlantic, the Gulf of Mexico, and various fresh water sites up to 6,249 ft. in elevation. I am not a 5,000 dive expert, but I have some varied experience. I have some training under my belt.

    Hopefully, you will reach a point in your diving avocation where you don't want every former house wife, or kid with 150 dives, telling you how to do every mundane thing while underwater. Solo diving, in some instances, gives me freedom from my betters.

    prophet98g likes this.
  8. drrich2

    drrich2 Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Southwestern Kentucky
    Here's a little hypothetical food for thought; if mainstream scuba instruction was based on solo diving from the start, and buddy diving was considered a more advanced specialty (e.g.: required AOW and minimum 25 logged dives before you could take it), I wonder what % of the diving public (who already have AOW, in order to prevent skewing the stat.s) would take the buddy diving course?

    My point is, if people weren't indoctrinated with the buddy diving mindset from the start, how would they react to it if presented more objectively later?

    Schwob and chillyinCanada like this.
  9. JamesBon92007

    JamesBon92007 Great White

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: Southern California...too far from the ocean
    The more I read of threads such as these here on SB the less I know. It is as if the longer I dive and the more experience I have, the less qualified I am to go diving.
    BCSGratefulDiver likes this.
  10. Patoux01

    Patoux01 Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Geneva

    Yeah, that basically. You are so arrogant that I am not even gonna explain why you comlpetely are "that guy".
    Captain Swoop and Kharon like this.

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