I'm curious about sidemount

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I generally use Steve's method. Gas management in sidemount is so easy it's hard to believe people actually consider it "task loading"

It's a matter of personal perspective. For some divers, remembering to check their SPGs once or twice on a dive, or swimming in a straight line at a constant depth is still task-loading.

I do, however, believe it is the 'sort' of task-loading that is easily and swiftly transferred into an autonomous skill - with a few dives practice.

---------- Post Merged at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:55 PM ----------

i prefer a 6 inch pointing up so i can see both of them without having to use my hands.

I believe there are significant drawbacks to that option if diving in confined environments and/or using a guideline etc. It's an entanglement hazard. For most OW divers it's a practicable option though.

In general you will have 1 second stage per first stage.......the other tank is your backup, no octo required

I believe that's how every agency teaches it for double tanks.
 
It's a matter of personal perspective. For some divers, remembering to check their SPGs once or twice on a dive, or swimming in a straight line at a constant depth is still task-loading.

(And I have been diving with some of those people recently. I hate boat guiding. I love teaching OW. I love doing intros. Boat diving you get 20 minutes briefing time to try and undo all the bad programming they have gotten.

Lately it has been just not equalizing because 'pretty fish, pretty fish, OMG my ears hurt!!!"

I believe there are significant drawbacks to that option if diving in confined environments and/or using a guideline etc. It's an entanglement hazard. For most OW divers it's a practicable option though.
.

Even OW diving, I am just completely sold on downward running guages.

I have also all but given up on anything but plastic body gauges. I would love to use a more durable metal gauge but after a fee dozen dives a metal guage just ends up making the short hose bend permanently, and the plastic ones don't. Have to use a boot for them but.
 
Don't give up on metal gauges yet. Try the low profile ones. They at significantly lighter then the normal size gauges and work great. It is what I use.

As for the gauges being an entanglement hazard when pointed forward, that can be greatly reduced if you run them through a 1.5-2" piece of bicycle inner tube. My gauges are done this way and are placed almost on my collar bone. I can just give a very slight tug on top of the gauge and see it very easy. I do not allow them to hang down in front of me like many seem to do.
 
I have to disagree with your example here, Larry. Steve's example does require one additional switch but is much safer. Check out this article - Sidemount Gas Management « Rob Neto - for an example of how your example might not be safe.
I certainly see your point, and it's a very good one so I won't argue the point - much. :D But there is a larger systems issue to be considered and you have to look at the the whole package and approach.

In your example everyone goes away happy without buddy breathing, while the 1/3 rd differential is problematic. No disagreement there, but the solution was not to get there in the first place.

An advantage of the "one third" maximum differential approach is simplicity in terms of number of gas switches and minimum complexity in pressures to switch at - you only need to calculate and remember 2 numbers, so it's easy even at ENDs in the 100-130ft range.

The simple approach also makes it very easy to dive smaller "thirds" that will build in an extra gas reserve while maintaining balanced tanks with no real effort or mental gymnastics for the diver and still with only 2 reg switches. In your example the diver comes out 200 psi short of having enough gas to exit. However, if instead of diving 1100 psi thirds, the diver turned only 100 psi earlier, that extra 200 psi that is needed is now present, as there is 1300 psi in the lowest tank at the failure - and since the dive turned 100 psi sooner, that same failure is also 200 psi closer to the exit, so the gas pad in the "low" tank is now 400 psi. The only downside is that I probably got to see a little less cave - but I have a lot more reserve to deal with all manner of other delays and emergencies that could occur on any given dive, so I am ok with that.

As an aside, I also dive with a 5 foot hose on each tank, so I can give the larger tank to the probably excited OOA diver who probably has an elevated SAC. That avoids the potential of having to give the low tank to an excited diver and further complicating the gas crunch.

In that regard I agree with you that pushing a 1/3rd differential in full "thirds" gas management is problematic - *when diving mixed teams*, but requires multiple failures to become a problem on a side mount only team, and you address that indirectly in your example, so again I don't think we disagree on that point.

However, I'll go a step farther and argue diving all the way to thirds is potentially problematic on any dive. Consequently, I'm pretty happy managing my gas with only 2 reg switches, but doing it with 100-200 psi less than a full third used on penetration, especially on a sidemount only team.

The concepts are all related as the degree to which you will burn time and gas dealing with and beginning the exit after a failure is dependent on the cave, the conditions, the configurations and the team members involved. Consequently, gas management in SM aside, with a teammate that I communicate and work well with under pressure 100-200 psi smaller thirds in a touristy cave is fine. But when I dive with a team mate of lesser ability or who is not as known a quantity, the reserve goes up accordingly. Similarly, the reserve goes up with unfamilair cave, tighter restrictions, more potential for silt or other delays, no flow/low flow, siphons, etc. SM versus BM team mates becomes just another factor to consider in planning an adequate reserve rather than defaulting to full "thirds" for penetration.

The point is that the focus is now on a very carefully considered and planned reserve and switch/turn pressures, rather than the temptation that some divers may have of just switching every 500-600 psi and more or less winging it on what becomes a dive to full thirds gas management with an inadequate reserve.

---------- Post Merged at 09:06 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:50 AM ----------

Check SPG, switch reg, is easy.
Yes, it's easy and that's the rub - it invites (apparently) math challenged divers to do less than adequate gas planning and instead just check the SPG and switch on rote 500 or 600 psi increments with no real thought to whether the actual reserve is adequate.

In actual practice the above math in my post is very simple and involves small numbers like "100", "200" or "300" psi, multiplying by "2" and dividing by 3, all of which can easily be done in your head on the surface.
 
In actual practice the above math in my post is very simple and involves small numbers like "100", "200" or "300" psi, multiplying by "2" and dividing by 3, all of which can easily be done in your head on the surface.

Some people use real and serious measurement units.
 
Some people use real and serious measurement units.

Don't blame us--blame the politicians who go along with the nonsense that metric is somehow "unAmerican", as if that makes any difference. (Remember those "Freedom Fries"?)
 
I agree.

That said, for the poor misguided Americans it's not much harder math wise when you add tank factors to work in cu ft rather than just psi, as you only have to apply that calculation to the "third" you choose to use for penetration purposes and to the actual reserve you want.

It's almost metric easy that way as well.

----

A larger concern is that the US education system has largely eliminated critical thinking from the curriculum and in some states teaching critical thinking is even illegal, as the students thus armed might start questioning such things as creationism and turn toward heretical views like evolution.

We're devolving at a pretty rapid rate over here...
 
A larger concern is that the US education system has largely eliminated critical thinking from the curriculum and in some states teaching critical thinking is even illegal, as the students thus armed might start questioning such things as creationism and turn toward heretical views like evolution.

We're devolving at a pretty rapid rate over here...
Unfortunately true.
 
Don't blame us--blame the politicians who go along with the nonsense that metric is somehow "unAmerican", as if that makes any difference. (Remember those "Freedom Fries"?)


Honnestly, I wasn't blaming or mocking anyone but I have always thank and still think I and some foreigners (US and other counties) came form the same planet but not the same world.
 
Some stupid questions = do you use custom / special short hose pressure gauges ? Do you use one second stage on each reg, or do some SM divers add an octopus to one of the regs ? Does anyone add a pony as a back-up ?

My config is just like others have described, except that I also have the long hose on a quick disconnect. My theory is that if theres a complete gas loss from the right tank, I can move the long hose to the left tank and I'm still able to donate air to a buddy if the emergency gets worse. I'm not sure if I'll stick with this - really just experimenting with it now.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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