Individual Rights, and other Myths

[MXGratefulDiver]

DaleC - When I use words like "irresponsible" and "reckless", I am not talking about "being an individual" or "not following the crowd". To give you a flavor of what I am talking about, you need to read this story:

Fearless spirit, tragic result | The San Diego Union-Tribune

Prior to his death, Steve was a member of this board ... and a participant in many conversations like this one.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Mike Boswell]

I'm OK with accepting only the Bill of Rights as rights-I generally stand behind that seldom referenced 9th one. Under the 9th, diving, and diving like an idiot is a right...although I try not to dive like an idiot.

I don't get this word privilege; it is either your right or it is expressly illegal.

Well, I think I can help you with this idea of "Privilege": Think of making love to your wife.....

 

[adurso]

Well, I think I can help you with this idea of "Privilege": Think of making love to your wife.....

Now you are entering the realm of myths and fairy tales....

 

[DaleC]

When I read that story I am reminded of the WKPP incident that occurred this year as well. I am hesitant to automatically call someone reckless or irresponsible though they may have made a singular reckless or irresponsible decision that sadly bit them in the a$$. If this behavior was an SOP for them then I would characterize them that way I suppose but I gain no pleasure from it and I always try to be aware that I am only one step away from making such an error myself.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

When I read that story I am reminded of the WKPP incident that occurred this year as well. I am hesitant to automatically call someone reckless or irresponsible though they may have made a singular reckless or irresponsible decision that sadly bit them in the a$$. If this behavior was an SOP for them then I would characterize them that way I suppose but I gain no pleasure from it and I always try to be aware that I am only one step away from making such an error myself.

You'd have to go back and read some of Steve's posts, I suppose. Not to speak ill of the dead ... but the circumstances of his death didn't surprise me (or probably anyone else).

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DCBC]

...This is the reality with which we are faced ... and this topic isn't about rights and privileges, it's about reality. Only by exercising self-restraint ... by considering how our decisions and actions affect others ... can we maintain any reasonable level of autonomy. Because when our actions impact others in negative ways, the potential for government intrusion increases.

We either police ourselves ... or someone will want the government to do it for us. That's the reality ... and if we don't want the latter, we need to consider the former ...

The problem (as I see it), is an individual's perception of what's acceptable risk and what isn't. Government in various jurisdictions have legislated wearing seat belts in automobiles and helmets driving motorcycles. Although this is the law, the individual may still disregard these legislations. In other words, I could choose to drive a car without wearing a seatbelt or ride my Harley without a helmet. If caught, I can pay the fine and do it again. Unless the fine is prohibitive, you can expect repeat offenders. Society sanctions this and other than receiving a subsequent ticket, no further action will ever be taken. That is the reality; we live in a Society of choice.

Society has many areas in-which it may choose to effect control. Whatever it does choose to do, it must enforce. The 'reality' is, sport diving is a volunteer activity which people don't need to be certified in anyway to undertake. How deep you elect to dive, what equipment you decide to use and whether you choose to follow safe diving practice is individual choice. To say otherwise is a failure to appreciate reality.

"Life is short. Break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love deeply, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that makes you smile."

I advocate diving responsibly, however I reserve the right to make that decision from my perspective and not someone else's. We should be promoting divers to dive within their safety envelope in-light of their training & experience, not trying to have them follow so-called rules that may or may not apply to them.

 

[CamG]

Wow I made it through all 22 pages of this thread!
REGULATION not a good thing!
RESPONSIBILITY always a good thing!
STOP / THINK/ ACT ACCORDINGLY "INTELLIGENTLY"! Very wise thing to do.

Good points to ponder but truthfully this is what has burnt me out on Scuba Board, CDF, other political forums.
Tired, bored, animosity has got to me!
In the end IT IS YOUR CHOICE TO ACT IN THE MANNOR YOU WISH!
In the USA men and women have died to give us that freedom and I will be dambed if I will give it back!

WHILE THIS THREAD IS GOING MEN AND WOMEN ARE IN HARMS WAY PURCHASING FREEDOM WITH THEIR LIVES!
So we can debate and bicker sounds a lot like another great civilization that burned!

Compliments to the MOD's and this is in the Advanced Forum.

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!

 

[Mike Boswell]

....

In the USA men and women have died to give us that freedom and I will be dambed if I will give it back!

WHILE THIS THREAD IS GOING MEN AND WOMEN ARE IN HARMS WAY PURCHASING FREEDOM WITH THEIR LIVES!
So we can debate and bicker sounds a lot like another great civilization that burned!
...

Another way to look at it is this: People died for our right of free speech, and we here are honoring their sacrifices by exercising that right.

 

[markmud]

Hello All,

Random thoughts:

I am stealing this from someone: "Government is not the answer, it is the problem!"

Government regulation of diving will not prevent Darwinism from removing genes from our collective pool. Nor will a strict adherance to PADI marketing orthodoxy eliminate the effects of Darwinism.

A government agency, or NGO, who promises to protect you from all things painful, will give you one painfully boring and frustrated life. Bureaucrats are the disease. Death is gauranteed, bureacrats are not.

Oh yea, depth is not the problem. Improper management of nitrogen, oxygen, pressure, exposure, individual psychology, and gas are the problems. (people have gone to great depths in DSRVs; we can go deep and safely).

If you believe depth is a problem, you have been succesfully indoctrinated by PADI. Do you remember which organization fought against Nitrox and Tech diving?

You keep the nannies, I'll keep my freedom.

markm

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The problem (as I see it), is an individual's perception of what's acceptable risk and what isn't. Government in various jurisdictions have legislated wearing seat belts in automobiles and helmets driving motorcycles. Although this is the law, the individual may still disregard these legislations. In other words, I could choose to drive a car without wearing a seatbelt or ride my Harley without a helmet. If caught, I can pay the fine and do it again. Unless the fine is prohibitive, you can expect repeat offenders. Society sanctions this and other than receiving a subsequent ticket, no further action will ever be taken. That is the reality; we live in a Society of choice.

Society has many areas in-which it may choose to effect control. Whatever it does choose to do, it must enforce. The 'reality' is, sport diving is a volunteer activity which people don't need to be certified in anyway to undertake. How deep you elect to dive, what equipment you decide to use and whether you choose to follow safe diving practice is individual choice. To say otherwise is a failure to appreciate reality.

"Life is short. Break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love deeply, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that makes you smile."

I advocate diving responsibly, however I reserve the right to make that decision from my perspective and not someone else's. We should be promoting divers to dive within their safety envelope in-light of their training & experience, not trying to have them follow so-called rules that may or may not apply to them.

We're in complete agreement, Wayne ... and Americans have a long and cultural history of breaking rules that don't suit them. In most cases it does no one any harm ... and so no one really cares. If we could advocate responsibility to the point where more people took it seriously, we could do away with at least half the laws currently on the books ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)