Individual Rights, and other Myths

[Mike Boswell]

Hey Bob,

.....however, the OP brought politics into this thread. "Individual Rights, and other Myths." The title of this thread is about political philosophy.

Many have interpreted this thread as a political issue. Many thought that I was in favor of more regulation of diving.

In fact, though, I am talking about the advice that experienced divers give to other divers. I am saying that we as a community would benefit by talking in terms of "responsibilities" rather than "rights".

I say this because, in my experience, people tend to be a little cavalier with their own safety, but when you remind them that their actions may have a negative impact on others, they often adopt a more balanced approach.

 

[markmud]

As to the "rules and regulations" for recreational scuba, I try to abide by the following:

1. Plan your dive.
2. Dive with a buddy.
3. Perform a buddy check prior to the dive.
4. Don't hold your breath underwater.
5. Don't dive deeper than 130 (or whatever) feet.
6. Stay within NDL limits using table or computer.
7. Ascend no faster than 60 (or whatever) ft./minute.
8. Perform 3-minute safety stop at 15 ft.
9. Be back on the boat with 500 psi in your tank.

I'm pretty sure that every one of those "rules" has "saved" me, in one way or another. And I really can't imagine that further training would change any of those rules in a meaningful way.

Hey Mike Boswell,

As a general rule, I follow YOUR guidelines also.

However, I have dived without a buddy. I did so responsibly though (my opinion and I know what you are thinking!) Hear me out.

1. I dived with a completely redundant pony that was tested during the initial stages of the dive.
2. I stayed in close proximity to the boat with other divers (on the boat) monitoring my progress while prepared with gear to help me if I needed it.
3. It was very clear water.
4. I did not approach staged decompression (the term NDL is a joke--all dives are decompression--I learned that from my PADI books)
5. I dived no deeper than 40 feet.
6. The dives were of a very short duration.

I have held my breath underwater while adjusting my bouyancy. I held my breath for a couple of seconds to ascend a few feet.

I know, I know, I am one those evil sinners who does not follow religous orthodoxy to a "t".

I am going to die!!! Oh my God! Oh well, burial at sea is an honorable thing.

I enjoyed your post.

markm

 

[markmud]

RE: post #231:

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the clarification.

I agree with the point that you made.

markm

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

In my world, which I know is different, it is part of my job to decide on students' propensity to make such bad choices and either fix it or not certify them. I suspect that we have different ideas and convictions as to where teaching begins and ends.

... that's a given ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hey Bob,

You have collectivist leanings. I don't. Please don't pretend to be holy enough to assume what and how my parents trained me.

I enjoyed the chat,

markm

Unfortunately, you missed my point completely. I am a huge fan of personal responsibility ... particularly in activities such as scuba diving. I am completely in favor of keeping it that way. In practice, I don't see a lot of personal responsibility on the part of the "all about me" crowd. They're all for "rights" and "freedom" ... without a whole lot of thought into what it takes to maintain those things.

I didn't assume anything about how your parents trained you ... I asked a question, for the purpose of illustration. You DO understand the difference between a question and an assumption ????

Seems to me that you just want to argue with somebody. If so, I'll be happy to accommodate .. but please read and try to comprehend what I wrote before responding ... it's difficult to respond to an argument against things I didn't say ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Thalassamania]

... that's a given ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

In your world the basic arrangement is solely between you and the student, in mine there is a third entity, the institution. My primary responsibility has always been to the institution, to assure that everything that can be done to minimize that possibility of occupational injury or death is done.

 

[Mike Boswell]

Hey Mike Boswell,

I am going to die!!! Oh my God! Oh well, burial at sea is an honorable thing.

I enjoyed your post.

markm

Hey markm,

We are all going to die.

I only hope that when I go, I will have the class to do it in a way that doesn't kill anybody else, doesn't screw things up for other people, and doesn't bring discredit to the sport of scuba diving.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hey Mike Boswell,

As a general rule, I follow YOUR guidelines also.

However, I have dived without a buddy. I did so responsibly though (my opinion and I know what you are thinking!) Hear me out.

1. I dived with a completely redundant pony that was tested during the initial stages of the dive.
2. I stayed in close proximity to the boat with other divers (on the boat) monitoring my progress while prepared with gear to help me if I needed it.
3. It was very clear water.
4. I did not approach staged decompression (the term NDL is a joke--all dives are decompression--I learned that from my PADI books)
5. I dived no deeper than 40 feet.
6. The dives were of a very short duration.

I have held my breath underwater while adjusting my bouyancy. I held my breath for a couple of seconds to ascend a few feet.

I know, I know, I am one those evil sinners who does not follow religous orthodoxy to a "t".

I am going to die!!! Oh my God! Oh well, burial at sea is an honorable thing.

I enjoyed your post.

markm

Wow ... ain't you special ... :bored2:

I've done staged decompression solo dives and it never occurred to me that I might die. Ain't no big whoop if you've got the training, experience, and chops to plan and put it together properly.

What is this religious orthodoxy you keep bringing up? :blessing:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

In your world the basic arrangement is solely between you and the student, in mine there is a third entity, the institution. My primary responsibility has always been to the institution, to assure that everything that can be done to minimize that possibility of occupational injury or death is done.

I understand that ... we serve different "masters" and different audiences ... and while I generally agree with your notion of higher training standards, I don't think the Scripps approach would serve the needs of my audience as well as it serves yours ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Mike Boswell]

I understand that ... we serve different "masters" and different audiences ... and while I generally agree with your notion of higher training standards, I don't think the Scripps approach would serve the needs of my audience as well as it serves yours ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Take it easy, guys....