"Industry Standards (US)" What are they?

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I found this post by Wookie to be interesting:

I use my cylinders in rental. I rebuild the valves and O2 clean the 80's every year. The neck O-rings get changed twice per season or so. Doubles with very expensive gas get stripped down and hydro'd every 5 years.

A hydro includes a VIP as well as a eddy current test if required. It's part of the hydro procedure. You never need to take your cylinder into a dive shop if you have a fire extinguisher hydro facility available to you. What your dive shop does when the cylinder comes back from hydro is basically put a VIP sticker on it for you for an extra 20 bucks. If you want that sticker, go ahead and get one, but the sticker is only proof that there is a sticker on the outside of your cylinder. It isn't proof that anyone did anything to the cylinder, nor is it proof that the cylinder is O2 clean, unless it's never been filled..... Once it's been filled, it may or may not be clean any longer...

I thought it might be worthwhile to discuss these "standards" including any references that might be available. I guess a large part of my problem is I can't find many references other than what each shop/operator might say.

So, why do I have to get an annual VIS? Why do I have to pay for 2 inspections in the course of a tank requalification? Why does a VIS expire at the beginning of the indicated month? What qualifications are required of a hydro inspector? What qualifications are required of a shop visual inspector? Any documented references?
 
I have a set of double AL80's that I bought brand new a year ago. They still look new have been in a freshwater lake 3-4 times and an lds's pool once. They have never been below 600psi since assembled. They are 02 cleaned. The vip expired in Feb so once I get a chance to drain the 36% that's in them now a new vip will be "needed". To do this the bands will have to be removed and reinstalled, the finely threaded isolator manifold unthreaded and rethreaded, and both valves pulled then reinstalled. Can anyone explain to me who all of this fiddling with my tanks will be beneficial to and why?
 
There is no legal reason for a VIS, but it is considered a added safety inspection. If you use a PADI shop, their retailer agreement requires the shop to only fill tanks that have a current visual inspection. The other agencies propably are the same.
 
There is no legal reason for a VIS, but it is considered a added safety inspection. If you use a PADI shop, their retailer agreement requires the shop to only fill tanks that have a current visual inspection. The other agencies propably are the same.

It is actually a DOT requirement that a tank be visually inspected when the hydro is done, but they aren't required to put a sticker on the tank like we do in the scuba industry.

---------- Post added March 15th, 2013 at 03:31 PM ----------

I have a set of double AL80's that I bought brand new a year ago. They still look new have been in a freshwater lake 3-4 times and an lds's pool once. They have never been below 600psi since assembled. They are 02 cleaned. The vip expired in Feb so once I get a chance to drain the 36% that's in them now a new vip will be "needed". To do this the bands will have to be removed and reinstalled, the finely threaded isolator manifold unthreaded and rethreaded, and both valves pulled then reinstalled. Can anyone explain to me who all of this fiddling with my tanks will be beneficial to and why?

It is a PITA to do all of that. I've been taught that it takes a crack an average of 8 years to become an explosion. The idea of checking each year is that you have a couple of opportunities to catch the crack, instead of relying on the one visual that's done every 5 years at hydro to catch it. Some cracks are very small and if the inspector isn't paying attention they may miss them. There's only one thing to do, dive those tanks more often and get your money's worth out of them :)

---------- Post added March 15th, 2013 at 03:44 PM ----------

So, why do I have to get an annual VIS? Why do I have to pay for 2 inspections in the course of a tank requalification? Why does a VIS expire at the beginning of the indicated month? What qualifications are required of a hydro inspector? What qualifications are required of a shop visual inspector? Any documented references?

You don't legally have to get a vis each year, it boils down to what the person filling your tanks require, the industry norm is every year. It is even possible to have a current vis and have someone refuse to fill because the sticker isn't recognized, although I think that is rare.

The two inspections thing is between you and the shop, the hydro facility is supposed to vis the tank at hydro, although since they aren't providing a sticker the shop will probably charge you for the service. It's not a bad idea to look in or have someone else look in the tank after hydro though...last hydro I had left my tanks dirty as hell.

Expiring at the beginning of the month..who knows, another industry standard, but one I can't explain. Hydros expire at the end of the month.

Hydro inspectors are qualified by the DOT. Conducting a hydro without a DOT code or with an expired one is a serious crime. The 4 digit code or symbol in between the month and year of hydro indicates the hydro facility that did the test. The number is read clockwise starting at the top left number. You can look up the code on the DOT website.

Visual inspectors are taught under certification agencies that are similar to scuba certifications, as in they all have a syllabus that is accepted by industry standards and rely on DOT, CGA and other regulations.

I don't have documentation that is in an electronic format, but I am a cylinder visual inspection instructor.
 
So, why do I have to get an annual VIS? Why do I have to pay for 2 inspections in the course of a tank requalification? Why does a VIS expire at the beginning of the indicated month? What qualifications are required of a hydro inspector? What qualifications are required of a shop visual inspector? Any documented references?

The simple answer, as I'm sure you are painfully aware, is that as long as the shop owns the compressor, they make the rules. Smile.....

---------- Post added March 15th, 2013 at 08:07 PM ----------

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I don't have documentation that is in an electronic format, but I am a cylinder visual inspection instructor.

Do you have a license? Would it be illegal for you to teach this course without a license? I'm curious. It's certainly not illegal to inspect scuba tanks at a dive shop with no "license".
 
I have a certification to instruct and the organization that I can instruct through will issue cylinder inspector certifications to people I train. It's no more illegal to teach a vis course without a certification than it is to teach a scuba course without one, its a very similar concept. The hydro shops are the ones that start running into violating actual laws when they do things they aren't licensed for (I'm not sure if they use the term licensed, but it fits with what I'm trying to convey).

I didn't say that you had to legally have a certification to inspect, but your question makes me want to reiterate that the yearly vis is not a legal requirement, and the only legally required vis is the one the hydro facility is required to do. Some ops may fill your tank without a vis sticker, others may fill only tanks that have a sticker that they put on, but many will simply require you to have a sticker showing a vis in the past year.
 
I have a set of double AL80's that I bought brand new a year ago. They still look new have been in a freshwater lake 3-4 times and an lds's pool once. They have never been below 600psi since assembled. They are 02 cleaned. The vip expired in Feb so once I get a chance to drain the 36% that's in them now a new vip will be "needed". To do this the bands will have to be removed and reinstalled, the finely threaded isolator manifold unthreaded and rethreaded, and both valves pulled then reinstalled. Can anyone explain to me who all of this fiddling with my tanks will be beneficial to and why?

Simple answer, the shop doing the VIS of course. In Australia tanks have to be hydro'd and vis every 12 months. I just had mine done and what I found offensive was that I didn't want the manifold on my twin cylinders to be serviced, but asked to have the cylinder neck O rings replaced and was told they would NOT do it unless I paid an additional $100 to have the manifold serviced. With my Nitrox cylinder which was current and clean to 100% I was told I had to pay for another clean during the hydro & test process. Why? If its clean all they introduce is water to do the hydro test, dry it and the visual inspection and reassemble so why the need to do another clean??? Seems rorting to me. Had my O2 regulator set cleaned and serviced and then it badly free flowed so I had to shut it down and drown it to prevent uncontrolled air loss during ascent. Took it back and his response was, its a bad design, put a shutoff valve in the LP line to save your primary regulator. here it costs $37 per cylinder and addition for disassembly and reassembly so about $100 all up for twins. Add $100 manifold service, and you are up for in the order of $200 per year. I have 2 sets of twins, 4 singles and 3 sling tanks. Now add to this one local operator who apparently can do a hydro test and inspection without ever removing the cylinder mesh and associated tape (I thought part of this test was to use a straight edge and measure the bow of the cylinder while under test pressure). Must have a new method to do this that others don't know about? I don't mind conscientious methodical work but detest high prices associated with poor or inaccurate/shoddy work.
 
I have a certification to instruct and the organization that I can instruct through will issue cylinder inspector certifications to people I train. It's no more illegal to teach a vis course without a certification than it is to teach a scuba course without one, its a very similar concept. The hydro shops are the ones that start running into violating actual laws when they do things they aren't licensed for (I'm not sure if they use the term licensed, but it fits with what I'm trying to convey).

What organization is it? PSI?

I believe that there is a de-facto legal issue of teaching scuba for payment without instructor certification, or providing scuba trips for payment to non-certified divers. I'm fairly certain there is no analogous situation with regards to scuba cylinder inspection. If so, then many, many dive shops are in violation. Essentially the shops own compressors and are free to fill or refuse to fill any scuba tank they choose, as long as the tank has a current DOT inspection. Most U.S. shops choose to issue vis stickers annually, but who knows what training any individual 'inspector' has.
 
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