Insurance DAN vs. PADI?

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mavjax:
We went for the top level of DAN even for the ekids. Even though the kids could easily have used a lower level, when we talked with DAN about it we were told that the limits placed on the lower levels are lifetime max's, and even if you try to upgrade after a hit you will still be subjected to the max at the time of your hit. Just didn't seem to make sense to go at the lower level.

So what I *think* you are saying is that IF you go with the lower insurance, and do NOT take a hit, you can still elect to upgrade to a higher level.

But IF you go with the lower level, and TAKE a HIT, then you are stuck at that level for the lifetime max payout?

I guess one could start with DAN, and then switch to PADI if a hit is incurred.

Insurance is SOOOO slipery... They love your money right up until the time you need their coverage.. and then things change...quickly!!

Ron
 
cancun mark:
Both are better than none, and the highest coverage you can afford is best, the premiums are pennys on the dollar compared to the expenses of treatment and evacuation.

My only comment is that the DAN insurance in Mexico has a cap of $3000 USD due to the less than honest dealings of one particular chamber operator. This cap was based on the average treatment costs of a "normal" hit..

Since then, I personally and the shop I work for have changed to the V&B through PADI, but only for this reason.


Is this CAP in Mexico for everyone, or for Diving professionals?? Christi seemed to indicate that was for working pro's in MX, but I can not remember....

Ron
 
I have the DAN Insurance. I'd be hard pressed to change carriers, because of how well I have been treated -and recently.
I took a bad hit in Grand Cayman in Aug. (DCS 2-Spinal;6 chamber rides, etc.)-and after contacting DAN, they were very helpful. Calls to the hospital and hotel, suggestions regarding what to do next, etc.

Two things to be aware of:
1) I did have to pay "up front" for the chamber rides-this was the chamber's call, not the insurance co. A credit card with a high limit is a good idea.

2) The DAN is insurance for the medical (hospital/Doctors/chamber) stuff is a secondary insurance- it kicks in after your own health insurance has done its thing.

That said,the people at DAN were great, very helpful, and indicated the insurance would foot the bill for the air ambulance,(GC to Miami,to hospital,etc.) that was almost needed-thank God it wasn't.

Also- the DAN policy paid for(as primary coverage)
a)the extra 3 days we had to stay in GC for treatments, and to wait to be medically cleared to fly.

b) The 2 airfairs home,when our original carrier could not accommodate the situation.
c) The cost of shipping dive gear and suitcases home. (With a note verifying Drs. orders to not lift, pull, or carry luggage.)

With service like that, I'd need a really good reason to change.

All in all:do the research, make a choice, but get the insurance. My "hit" was "unexpected/undeserved/shouldn't have happened",but it did.....and I am thankful that I had the insurance.

take care,
Mike
 
Aquawookie:
Differences between PADI and DAN insurance.
The PADI plan is offered by Vicencia & Bucklyey. They are a good insurer but they are a company who are in business to make money. Any profits are used to pay shareholders. DAN is a not for profit, research orginisation who fund research into diving medicine. Any profits they make are used to fund this research.
Don't confuse DAN, with DAN Insurance. One is a non profit associated with Duke University and the other was started by the same guy but as a means to make a living.

My experience with DAN Insurance has not been nearly as rosey.

My spouse had a dive related condition with her vision due to changes in O2 levels directly related to a couple deep dives that day. She was diagnosed with an occular migrane that resulted in blurry and wavy vision. This was the consensus and considered opinion of the ER physician, and the consulting opthamologist. The guy on the other end of the phone at DAN agreed and suggested we follow whatever advice they recommended up to and including a chamber ride if they felt that were needed or if they suspected anything else was ocurring (they didn't). My wife's vision returned to normal in a few days and other than a follow up with her eye doctor for lingering dryness of her eyes no other care was needed.

Surprisingly they paid for the follow up visit with the eye Dr. no questions asked. But what followed was an 18 month ordeal getting DAN Insurance to pay for the ER visit. Initially, after about 6 months of processing problems and proving our primary insurance had paid everything it was going to pay, the company that processes and approves the DAN Insurance claims (here after referred to as "DAN") denied it (despite the phone call to DAN from the ER from the ER doctor and opthamologist) insisting it was not dive related based on the doctors notes in the file and adding that my spouse's policy only covered dive related in water injuries.

After a call to the physicians involved to ask them to add some detail to the notes and after obtaining and forwarding the updated and detailed notes explainining the connection to diving and again waiting months, DAN acknowledged it was indeed dive related but denied it again anyway stating the diagosis was not on their approved list of covered conditions. My mpression was that since the injury was not a run of the mill case of DCS, AGE or some sea critter inflicted injury, getting coverage was a problem.

We appealed and once again had to contact the physicians involved for more detailed information. DAN then was forced to acknowledge the condition was dive related but then denied the claim on the basis that they considered it to be a pre-existing condition. This was based on a medical record indicating my wife had what was referred to as a "migrane" headache following a surgery about 4 years prior and this supposedly had some tie to the "occular migrane" she experienced after the dive - which had nothing to do with a headache at all.

All of this was despite their original recognition of the event as a covered accident with their prompt and smooth payment of the follow up visit with the eye doctor. Go figure. DAN had no explanation for this. At that point I was advised by DAN that we would have to again appeal and resubmit and that DAN would then have 30 days after they received all the requested documentation again to reconsider the claim. I advised that I was done appealing and if I did not receive reimbursement within 10 days I would file a formal complaint with the state Division of Insurance. The check was received by the hospital a week later. They of course have long since been paid so we are stuck waiting for them to reimburse us.

To be fair, DAN insurance farms out the actual processing and approval of their claims to a private company and after the initial filing we never had any direct contact with DAN or DAN Insurance. But in my opinion DAN Insurance is still fully responsible for the agents they hire to meet their obligations. I was not impressed at all with the service and felt that no one I was talking too had a clue about diving or dive related injuries beyond what was on a scheduled list of covered conditions an injuries.

So my advice is if you go with DAN Insurance is to go with the broadest coverage possible to eliminate as much wiggle room as possible for them when they try to deny the claim and remember to threaten to file a compalint early in the process to ensure better service if they stall at all in covering the claim.

Personally, we are using someone (anyone) else in the future.
 
RonFrank:
So what I *think* you are saying is that IF you go with the lower insurance, and do NOT take a hit, you can still elect to upgrade to a higher level.

But IF you go with the lower level, and TAKE a HIT, then you are stuck at that level for the lifetime max payout?

I guess one could start with DAN, and then switch to PADI if a hit is incurred.

Insurance is SOOOO slipery... They love your money right up until the time you need their coverage.. and then things change...quickly!!

Ron

I got the lowest level of DAN insurance after I got certified then upgraded the next year. Also, I recommend going with the highest level of insurance available. Think of it this way: If you can afford to go scuba diving, you can afford a couple of more bucks to insure yourself properly.
 
Further to DA Aquamaster's comments, bear in mind that neither DAN nor Vicencia and Buckley actually are your insurance company. In other words DAN or V&B do not assume the financial risk of your claim....the insurance underwriter does, and the name of that company can be found in the actual policy contract you receive as a buyer of either DAN or PADI program.

DAN and V&B make a commission on the sale of the product to you.

Scubamax
 
I, personally, see an advantage in DAN in their personal connection.
You can call their phone numbers (all recieving collect calls from everywhere in the world), and talk to a real person, get medical advice about serious and non-serious medical matters, is what seperates DAN with PADI. I understand the PADI insurance as just paying your medical bills.
The DAN team will contact your doctors and stay in contact, they will follow you allong your journey.
 
Thanks for writing this FatCat. That's great service and I"m really pleased I insured with DAN after reading this!



FatCat:
I'm on my way to bed, so I'll make this a fast post. I've had DAN insurance from the day I got certified as a diver.

One time, after a diving holiday in Jamaica, I got a serious case of vertigo just before getting on the plane, probably because of the extreme difference in temperature between the transit zone and the gate. My wife and I were sent off the plane and I had to get medical clearance to get on a later flight.

We went to the nearest hospital, where a resident misdiagnosed me with asymptomatic DCI. I requested assistance from DAN headquarters in Italy, who transferred my case to DAN Americas.

Two hours after my admittance I got a call from one of the stand-by doctors of DAN Americas, who took my anamnesis by phone and conferred with the treating physician. The final conclusion was that I probably didn't have DCI, so DAN could get the chamber in Ocho Rios off standby. It turns out that before DAN made the call to the hospital, they had alerted the chamber personnel and had already put the medevac helicopter on standby to transport me to the chamber in case of necessity. They still advised me to spend the night on oxygen at the hospital just to be on the safe side.

How's that for service?
 
miked:
I have the DAN Insurance. I'd be hard pressed to change carriers, because of how well I have been treated -and recently.
I took a bad hit in Grand Cayman in Aug. (DCS 2-Spinal;6 chamber rides, etc.)-and after contacting DAN, they were very helpful. Calls to the hospital and hotel, suggestions regarding what to do next, etc.

Two things to be aware of:
1) I did have to pay "up front" for the chamber rides-this was the chamber's call, not the insurance co. A credit card with a high limit is a good idea.

2) The DAN is insurance for the medical (hospital/Doctors/chamber) stuff is a secondary insurance- it kicks in after your own health insurance has done its thing.

That said,the people at DAN were great, very helpful, and indicated the insurance would foot the bill for the air ambulance,(GC to Miami,to hospital,etc.) that was almost needed-thank God it wasn't.

Also- the DAN policy paid for(as primary coverage)
a)the extra 3 days we had to stay in GC for treatments, and to wait to be medically cleared to fly.

b) The 2 airfairs home,when our original carrier could not accommodate the situation.
c) The cost of shipping dive gear and suitcases home. (With a note verifying Drs. orders to not lift, pull, or carry luggage.)

With service like that, I'd need a really good reason to change.

All in all:do the research, make a choice, but get the insurance. My "hit" was "unexpected/undeserved/shouldn't have happened",but it did.....and I am thankful that I had the insurance.

take care,
Mike

Mike, cold you share with us the dive that caused your hit? It might be helpful to understand what happened so we can avoid the same situtation? Thanks
 
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