Is Deep Air / Light Deco (bounce?) Discussible on ScubaBoard?

[VooDooGasMan]

jax you are the one that put it For-Deep-Air crew, and give you a reason to go below 150' on air, I simply pointed out you are not the one that will. And your statement was also rude by placing you with bob, your side and deep air divers on our side. The sides are big on both sides, some have not even post on this thread because it is a thread to see if we can make it a civil discussion.

Tiger, there is no promoting as dive nav has pointed out there are these dives being done at resorts, charters, and in lakes around the world.

I myself can dive DEEP AIR, DEEP AIR BOUNCE, many different ways, if you are not liking that my way of single tank DEEP AIR, Twin tank Really DEEP AIR then you are not gonna like my deco procedures as well.

The tech route is fantastic, DIR, GUE, have been here a short time and when I looked into it I seen a way for rec divers to be in a club type diving, where as when you were in Iantd you dove with some one that had the background you did and went and did dives.

The training is what divers tire of they want to see the sealife, the wrecks and then there is stuff deeper, so they do DEEP AIR BOUNCE DIVES. The ones that appeal to it go into tech diving and are back into training to get there cert.

There are so many divers that will not waste there time in training and just want to go a little deeper and some of these divers die cause of it. My Myself have one direction on Deep Air/Bounce Diving and that is to be able to let these divers be aware it can be done as they have seen it with there own Eyes, but it also needs training, and work up dives, any one who wants can do these dives, but really just have followed the leader like they were going to pull them back to safety.

Solo Diving has one hell of a lot to do with it, these divers are all of a sudden by themselves, narced do they go deeper to find there buddy and they look around for 1 minute and WHAM Now there out of air and can not make it to the surface. If they have solo experience they wont be so shocked when separated with a buddy. Also solo experience allows you to prepare for having the right gear to do the dive.

On the History Channel yesterday morning we were all having breakfast before going out to get crab traps, and Banditto's Dive boat San Pan had scott castell, some pearson fella and ricks son RJ, they were diving under the narrows bridge, I understand you want some good footage when doing these dives and they wanted a really big GPO, with there full face mask and gadgets for filming. They get back from a dive and have basically no air left in there tanks. Most everyone looks at me and say's is that how you dive out there(as in front of our houses) I reply no I am a way safer diver then them, and I have 15' to 16' GPO's that I get to see, not just an eye or a leg, they ended up going to sunrise beach or maybe another dive site and got one out of its hole as when they started shooting film it was inking pretty bad, and ended with a 7' GPO for a history show finally.

If you watch and look at there gear and the dive as a new diver you are going to get the Idea that this type of behavior is done while diving. Of course RJ was on top of his game to make sure things did not turn out tragic, and I would also say rick had his gear ready to go, one thing is publicity, the other is bad publicity.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Guys, you're displaying the same attitude of a lot of others on this board - people for whom I (and others) hold no respect because you prefer to attack the person instead of having the "adult debate".


So, here I am, asking the questions of you. I am asking.....

Yet you won't answer the most basic, simple question, how deep have YOU dove on air?

 

[Jax]

Yet you won't answer the most basic, simple question, how deep have YOU dove on air?

Oh, for crying out loud, dumpster, I'll lead you down the path! :whatever:

1. Check the profile.

2. Check the level of certification. = AN/DP

3. Consider what are the depths required for DP certification. (in my case, 150')

4. Conclude that at least ONCE, I went to 150'.


But if you think it is so dog-awful important, I have done a few deco dives to 160, with a max of 165. I prefer to incur no more than 15 minutes deco time, I believe in deep stops, I use Vplanner, and clear both it and both Uwatecs prior to surfacing. My goal is a decent dive on the Oriskany. EDIT: and a Spanish galleon in Fl. And for a longer time on the Vandy. And a penetration dive on the Duane. And . . .

However, as of this time, neither I, nor my trusted buddies / instructors, have been able to ascertain when I am narced. Therefore, I will not dive "deep" on air, past the ~150 mark (except for very short jaunt well within dive plan to a favorite photo spot at 160') until I know what that narcosis is to me.

hbrother:

 

[Jax]

An excellent post, VDGM, thank you!!!

jax you are the one that put it For-Deep-Air crew, and give you a reason to go below 150' on air, I simply pointed out you are not the one that will. And your statement was also rude by placing you with bob, your side and deep air divers on our side. The sides are big on both sides, some have not even post on this thread because it is a thread to see if we can make it a civil discussion.

For the record, I asked "give me a reason" in hopes to hear why you guys deep dive on air. I appreciate this post, as you explained a LOT more of from where you are coming.


For my personal edification, have you ever tried trimix? or is it one of those dog-awful-expense, mortgage-your-house to dive trimix areas?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Oh, for crying out loud, dumpster, I'll lead you down the path! :whatever:

1. Check the profile.

2. Check the level of certification. = AN/DP

3. Consider what are the depths required for DP certification. (in my case, 150')

4. Conclude that at least ONCE, I went to 150'.


But if you think it is so dog-awful important, I have done a few deco dives to 160, with a max of 165. I prefer to incur no more than 15 minutes deco time, I believe in deep stops, I use Vplanner, and clear both it and both Uwatecs prior to surfacing. My goal is a decent dive on the Oriskany. EDIT: and a Spanish galleon in Fl. And for a longer time on the Vandy. And a penetration dive on the Duane. And . . .

However, as of this time, neither I, nor my trusted buddies / instructors, have been able to ascertain when I am narced. Therefore, I will not dive "deep" on air, past the ~150 mark (except for very short jaunt well within dive plan to a favorite photo spot at 160') until I know what that narcosis is to me.

hbrother:

I have no idea what those letters stand for, andp ? So to get a DP on your profile you have to dive to 150 on air.. Great... So you do deco dives on air to 165 feet...I still think you are too inexperienced to do that kind of diving, but then again, I don't know about all this technical training.

I used to dive with a buddy to around 160 all the time (for several years) and then he had to finally get an OW certification so he could dive on vacation.. His instructor was left on the boat when he and I did a 165 ft dive and then he did one 60 foot dive with his instructor and got certified in one day! She had no clue had to work a floatline in a current and made a huge mess of it, but we said she could come out again if she gave him the C-card....

 

[Jax]

I have no idea what those letters stand for, andp ? So to get a DP on your profile you have to dive to 150 on air.. Great... So you do deco dives on air to 165 feet...I still think you are too inexperienced to do that kind of diving, but then again, I don't know about all this technical training.

 

[lamont]

For my personal edification, have you ever tried trimix? or is it one of those dog-awful-expense, mortgage-your-house to dive trimix areas?

No, he dives up here. Trimix is just typical-US-techdiving expensive.

It is also cold (42-52F depending on where) and dark and low viz around here.

While we have a remarkable track record for all kinds of nonsense not killing our tech divers, deep air does have a track record of getting people dead/bent around here.

 

[Jax]

Thanks!

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Lets say that you are at 40.5m and you have accumulated 7 mins of backgas deco and are getting ready to call the dive. Lets also say that you are diving with a buddy which some (but not all) of us tend to do. Your buddy, at that moment, goes out of gas and comes to you for help. How much time will it take to help your buddy? (Gas donation, handing over your pony, etc.) Optimistically, it will take 1 minute. Most likely, a lot more. How much deco obligation did that extra minute add?

So, for you and your buddy, is a direct ascent to the surface now an option? Lets say it took you 3 minutes to sort out the emergency, what is your deco obligation now? Are your risks significantly increased if you decide to do a direct ascent now? If so, do you and your buddy have enough gas to complete whatever deco you are obligated to do?

I'm gonna guess that most of the masses who only have "recreational" training don't have the knowledge on how to deal with this situation and as such, are likely not only ill equipped but also unaware of their best options for minimizing the severity of the outcome.

Personally, I consider any dive that can go outside of the boundaries of what is taught in "recreational" dive training to be, not recreational. And in the U.S., PADI, NAUI and SSI seem to be pretty close when it comes to defining what the boundaries of their recreational training programs are.

OK, like I said, this is where I will today start moving forward by looking back, but actually, I'm moving forward a couple posts from this post (both in the past and in this present), to move forward on the topics addressed in this post ...

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

You're right that I failed to perceive you were talking about working/deco ppO2s in a tread about light or no deco dives. Can I take your umbrage to indicate that a difference of .2 (the 1.8 I thought you meant by working vs the 1.6 you actually meant) is a big deal? Because no agency I know of has taught 1.6 working ppO2 for a decade or more, nor 1.8 on deco. So you're off by at least 0.2, due to either training you took a while ago and never bothered to learn more about, or due to much higher risk tolerance. There's nothing wrong with a high risk tolerance for your own dives, but deriding others who choose to lower their risk in ways with very little cost (a few minutes deco, if that), and misleading those without the training/experience to know better by implying that those who choose to dive lower ppO2s, or add He, or do anything else among the array of options that have been developed to make dives outside the recreational depth ranges safer, those people are just lawyer-driven or profit-driven worrywarts.

Yes, I was right to perceive that you still fail to perceive that I was not talking about "working/deco" PPO₂'s.

I am allowed to switch to a "deco" tank with up to 50% O₂, but my computer does not accelerate my deco and the 1.8 has no bearing on the deco.

1.8 is the "contingency" or "exceptional exposure" PPO₂, with the "printed" caveat that ...

Remember, exceptional exposures are for use only in lifesaving opportunities.

and my Exceptional Exposure Limits table shows ...

• 2.0 .............. 30 min
• 1.9 .............. 45
• 1.8 .............. 60
• 1.7 .............. 75

Then, during happy hour at Dick's Round Table one can hear dive legends like Thal get "anointed in IANTD holy water" and confidentially agree that calm "exceptional" 10 minute photo sessions are not illogical exceptions.



Warning; if you are not one of the so "anointed", you should follow all your applicable training and experience to be safe!