Is Deep Air / Light Deco (bounce?) Discussible on ScubaBoard?

[DevonDiver]

To me, this whole "light deco" discussion is kind of like the discussions surrounding defibrillators years ago. Back then, the only people permitted to use a defibrillator were MD's. If you weren't an MD and used one, you were arrested, shot, tried, convicted and sentenced -- in that order. Today, things are different. Here in Canada, many (most?) hockey rinks have defibrillators readily available for anyone to use. If you know how to read, you can effectively use a defibrillator to save someone's life. Too many people died over the years waiting for an MD to show up and use the defibrillator. That was too much of a waste so it was changed.

Actually, 'light deco' was something historically more commonplace amongst many agencies. We've come away from that - because appropriate and accessible specific deco training (i.e. 'tech') has evolved greatly over the last 2 decades. Recreational diving training was 'dumbed down' and consequently, more limitations were put onto those divers.

The scuba industry marketed a very positive image of the sport - highlighting the 'fun' and avoiding any education on risks and consequences. Courses were re-modelled to be cheep, quick and cheerful. Now.. the wheel is coming full circle and those 'dumbed down' fun-divers are starting to think that they can do anything without training or knowledge... because the risk understanding is virtually zero.

Eventually, I suspect that "light deco" will be the norm in rec diving and will be taught as a normal part of OW courses. It may take a while to get there, but responsible discussions like this one pave the way to changing how we do and perceive things. It is simply expanding the envelope just as what has occurred in many other areas of life over the years.

Zero chance of that happening.

PADI have really gotten into 'tech' in the last 5 years. Their program is being marketed heavily and the number of instructors/centres offering tec courses will be increasing drastically. Overall, all the tec agencies are seeing much more business. 'Tech Diving' is a very flourishing trend. From a sales/profit perspective alone, they won't be throwing that training into earlier-stage courses.

Of course... if/when you ever do a tech course... then you'll swiftly realise what the demands and skill-levels need to be. Many OW students struggle to maintain a 1 minute hover... let alone a 15min precise-depth deco stop...whilst simultaneously dealing with all eventualities and contingencies

I've seen enough 'recreational' instructors and dive-masters have melt-downs on entry-level tech courses to be quite convinced that deco will never be pushed forwards in the curriculum.

 

[boulderjohn]

Of course... if/when you ever do a tech course... then you'll swiftly realise what the demands and skill-levels need to be. Many OW students struggle to maintain a 1 minute hover... let alone a 15min precise-depth deco stop...whilst simultaneously dealing with all eventualities and contingencies

I was a relatively experienced instructor when I started the tech training. It was one of the most humbling experiences of my life.

Most people who have no trouble holding a safety stop for 3 minutes don't see what the big deal is about holding prolonged deco stops. The difference is that a safety stop is not required, so if something goes wrong you can just go to the surface. Deco stops are required, so if something goes wrong you have to be able to deal with that problem while holding a stop, perhaps for 20 minutes or more. Your training includes multiple potential failures with which you must be able to deal successfully at depth. By the time you have gone through enough failure scenarios, you have had multiple practices with just about everything that can possibly go wrong, and you know the best procedures for each. To give you an idea of what happens in training, on one of my earlier training dives my buddy and I had to hold our last two deco stops buddy breathing off of one of our deco bottles while I had had my mask removed by the instructor and could not see. Now that's a very unlikely scenario, but the training required to be able to do that made me confident that I can handle just about anything that can be handled in an emergency.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I was a relatively experienced instructor when I started the tech training. It was one of the most humbling experiences of my life.

Same here ... in fact, for Fundies, AN/DP, Trimix I, Trimix II and Cave I can say that I went into all of those classes expecting to do better than I actually ended up doing ... and came out of each one with a changed perspective of what I could actually do, and what I needed to do to reach a level I thought I had already achieved ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[dumpsterDiver]

...To give you an idea of what happens in training, on one of my earlier training dives my buddy and I had to hold our last two deco stops buddy breathing off of one of our deco bottles while I had had my mask removed by the instructor and could not see. Now that's a very unlikely scenario, but the training required to be able to do that made me confident that I can handle just about anything that can be handled in an emergency.

I MADE my 9-yr old master mask-less buddy breathing BEFORE I would allow him to enroll in a dive class.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I MADE my 9-yr old master mask-less buddy breathing BEFORE I would allow him to enroll in a dive class.

... at that age they don't even realize it's supposed to be hard. For them, it's just a game. That's why I love teaching kids ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DevonDiver]

I MADE my 9-yr old master mask-less buddy breathing BEFORE I would allow him to enroll in a dive class.

In which case, your 9-yr old probably has more competency that >90% of the certified divers out there.

The big issue is task loading (and stress management) - completing multiple urgent tasks whilst maintaining situational awareness and core dive functions.

Most divers can hold an accurate stop. Most divers can share air. Most divers can replace a mask.
Few divers can do all three simultaneously.

To consider doing a decompression dive, a diver needs to be certain that they can multi-task to this extent. They have to be sure that they can hold a stop regardless of what happens; be that deploying a DSMB, conducting a valve shut-down, replacing a fin, sharing air, calculating their gas duration, dealing with current, supporting an incapacitated buddy, losing their mask, controlling a loaded lift bag, coping with a gauge failure....and on and on and on...

People have speculated what 'deco' is. How a dive may, or may not, be deco with X, Y or Z computer or table. How it may be 'light'... or I guess 'heavy'. How 'deco is not deco' if you can clear it on ascent.

I guess what 'deco' is to me... is a mindset.

Deco is having an inherent respect for the dangers of DCI.

Deco is making a committed decision to ensure your safety by abiding to whatever profile and ceilings you have calculated for the dive..and taking all necessary measures to guarantee that you can abide to those calculated dive parameters. Those measures include; planning, equipment, education and appropriate training...and a prudent attitude.

No excuses, no justifications, no explaining things away.

"Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try." Yoda (on deco)

 

[boulderjohn]

Most divers can hold an accurate stop. Most divers can share air. Most divers can replace a mask.
Few divers can do all three simultaneously.

To consider doing a decompression dive, a diver needs to be certain that they can multi-task to this extent. They have to be sure that they can hold a stop regardless of what happens; ..

That was my point exactly.

Buddy breathing while maskless is one thing. Holding a precise depth for a deco stop while doing it, then ascending to the next level, regaining buoyancy, and holding that precise depth while doing it is another. The normal buddy breathing technique goes out the window as you hold perfect trim, touch the knot on the ascent line with the right hand to be sure you at the right depth while you reach back with the left hand to dump air from the rear dump of the wing to adjust buoyancy, hoping you will soon feel a regulator at your lips soon or that you can complete the buoyancy act in time to give the regulator back to your buddy (left handed) is another.

 

[Tigerman]

...

"Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try". Yoda (on deco)

I disagree a bit with Yoda. There is a try..
Try is what you did when you sat yourself up to fail

The effect of thinking "I WILL do it" rather than "I'll try doing it" is seriously underestimated..

 

[ScubaSteve]

I disagree a bit with Yoda. There is a try..
Try is what you did when you sat yourself up to fail

The effect of thinking "I WILL do it" rather than "I'll try doing it" is seriously underestimated..

I think the point was that the cost of failure is huge with deco diving. It is not a simple matter of you rolling backwards and possibly a light bump on the noggin. You do not try deco diving. You either do it right or pay the price.

 

[Tigerman]

It might be a bump on the noggin, but it might also be a seriously bad one

And yeah, do it right or pay the price isnt quite as much focused upon in diving as it is with for example skydiving and sometimes I think it should be more of a focus, given the things I see some people do under there..

Its not like its only tech dives that goes to **** every once in a while..