Is it possible to travel responsibly (during a pandemic)?

[tarponchik]

The coronavirus is a highly mutable single stranded RNA virus. ... Stopping transmission and new infections would remove the selective pressure for variants.

Stopping transmission will help, but for a different reason. This is pure math, the fewer active cases there are, the fewer chances for a new variant to be created. The vaccines, however, will put selection pressure the opposite way, to develop virus variants less sensitive to vaccines.

 

[lairdb]

(It's been interesting to roll through this thread and see the tone and content change over time. I was curious to see if anyone had addressed a "what if it doesn't get better" perspective. Appears to be "no", so I'll ask.)

I'm curious how folks' answers might change if it turns out to stick around. Everyone is waiting for a silver bullet vaccine -- but let's consider a hypothetical: we learn how to treat it, but it will be decades if ever before it can be eradicated. (Think polio, or smallpox.)

It's just a new reality: yesterday, we would lose an extra 10,000 lives a week to seasonal flu for a few months out of the year; we are used to that. Now, we lose an extra 8,000 a week to COVID-19, lots get it, a few get long-haul effects, as long as you get diagnosed early and good care, you have decent survival odds -- that's just the New Normal.

Do we still think it's not responsible to travel? Or is it just a new accepted risk, as TB and diptheria once were, and people get on with their lives?

 

[Jcp2]

Well if that’s the attitude then I sure hope everybody has budgeted money for more hospital units and staff to take care of respiratory illnesses. The only reason we are okay-ish now is because there are a lot of restrictions on public gatherings and mask use and so forth and so on.

 

[tursiops]

(It's been interesting to roll through this thread and see the tone and content change over time. I was curious to see if anyone had addressed a "what if it doesn't get better" perspective. Appears to be "no", so I'll ask.)

I'm curious how folks' answers might change if it turns out to stick around. Everyone is waiting for a silver bullet vaccine -- but let's consider a hypothetical: we learn how to treat it, but it will be decades if ever before it can be eradicated. (Think polio, or smallpox.)

It's just a new reality: yesterday, we would lose an extra 10,000 lives a week to seasonal flu for a few months out of the year; we are used to that. Now, we lose an extra 8,000 a week to COVID-19, lots get it, a few get long-haul effects, as long as you get diagnosed early and good care, you have decent survival odds -- that's just the New Normal.

Do we still think it's not responsible to travel? Or is it just a new accepted risk, as TB and diptheria once were, and people get on with their lives?

You are describing normalization of deviance. If your travel helps spread it, then you should not travel. Once your travel does not help spread it, and it is only you that can suffer the consequences, then it is your call.

 

[GJC]

(It's been interesting to roll through this thread and see the tone and content change over time. I was curious to see if anyone had addressed a "what if it doesn't get better" perspective. Appears to be "no", so I'll ask.)

I'm curious how folks' answers might change if it turns out to stick around. Everyone is waiting for a silver bullet vaccine -- but let's consider a hypothetical: we learn how to treat it, but it will be decades if ever before it can be eradicated. (Think polio, or smallpox.)

It's just a new reality: yesterday, we would lose an extra 10,000 lives a week to seasonal flu for a few months out of the year; we are used to that. Now, we lose an extra 8,000 a week to COVID-19, lots get it, a few get long-haul effects, as long as you get diagnosed early and good care, you have decent survival odds -- that's just the New Normal.

Do we still think it's not responsible to travel? Or is it just a new accepted risk, as TB and diptheria once were, and people get on with their lives?

It's now over 3000 a day, not 8000 week.

That's more than heart disease and more than cancer, which used to be the number 1 and number 2 causes of death.

 

[tarponchik]

Do we still think it's not responsible to travel? Or is it just a new accepted risk, as TB and diptheria once were, and people get on with their lives?

We who? I do not think it is irresponsible to travel, unless you have COVID symptoms. Yes, life should go on, with reasonable precautions.

 

[Kimela]

How about this? When I travel, I assume responsibility for myself. When I travel, I am among other people who have also taken on that responsibility for their own risk. While we are on vacation - on dive boats, at dinner, maybe at the grocery store or souvenir shopping - we are still among other people who have made the decision to assume the risk associated with their/our activities. Some, understandably, are doing so in order to provide for their families - same as the employees back home (Walmart, Aldis, Walgreens, etc).

When I return home I go from the airport (where I have co-mingled with others who assumed their risk) via shuttle to my car, where I do a contactless payment for parking my car. I drive home, where I remain for at least two weeks (I do my work via zoom), getting my groceries via a contactless program at my local grocery.

I have not, at any time during my travels, introduced myself into a population of high risk people, or people who are unaware they are among those who may have been exposed to covid. I have not unintentionally exposed anyone's friend or relative to covid. I will not do so after returning home.

The way I see it, this is how I can travel responsibly during a pandemic. I'm sure there will be some who disagree, and I am open to hearing a logical, persuasive argument. I also know there is a possibility I could get covid and die - or that my husband might - and I may bitterly regret my decision as I take my last breath. I get it.

 

[wnissen]

You do realize that viruses do not reproduce sexually, so they do not mix, don't you?

Many organisms that reproduce asexually have mechanisms to increase genetic diversity. I suggest you read about recombinant viruses, when two strains that are replicating in the same host swap corresponding DNA segments and can combine mutations. In fact this is (apparently) how the virus came to be, by swapping with pangolin coronaviruses. Every time you have different virus populations in the same host there is an opportunity for recombination, though I'm not aware of any of the new variants doing that. I hope not to have to find out.

 

[Jcp2]

How about this? When I travel, I assume responsibility for myself. When I travel, I am among other people who have also taken on that responsibility for their own risk. While we are on vacation - on dive boats, at dinner, maybe at the grocery store or souvenir shopping - we are still among other people who have made the decision to assume the risk associated with their/our activities. Some, understandably, are doing so in order to provide for their families - same as the employees back home (Walmart, Aldis, Walgreens, etc).

When I return home I go from the airport (where I have co-mingled with others who assumed their risk) via shuttle to my car, where I do a contactless payment for parking my car. I drive home, where I remain for at least two weeks (I do my work via zoom), getting my groceries via a contactless program at my local grocery.

I have not, at any time during my travels, introduced myself into a population of high risk people, or people who are unaware they are among those who may have been exposed to covid. I have not unintentionally exposed anyone's friend or relative to covid. I will not do so after returning home.

The way I see it, this is how I can travel responsibly during a pandemic. I'm sure there will be some who disagree, and I am open to hearing a logical, persuasive argument. I also know there is a possibility I could get covid and die - or that my husband might - and I may bitterly regret my decision as I take my last breath. I get it.

One persons travel is another persons eating out is another persons going to parties. One persons careful is another persons recklessness. One persons assumption of risk for pleasure is another persons assumption of risk for income. One persons covid is a death sentence is another persons Covid is a bad cold is another persons covid is a hoax.

 

[scubadada]

Stopping transmission will help, but for a different reason. This is pure math, the fewer active cases there are, the fewer chances for a new variant to be created. The vaccines, however, will put selection pressure the opposite way, to develop virus variants less sensitive to vaccines.

The selective pressure for desirable mutations will always exist. As you say, it is math. Many less infected hosts, less virus, less chance for a rare event to occur, and less chance to then spread it to others, and then others...