Is it worth it?

[Redshift]

Second, if you really wanted to see better divers, get them away from the DM/instructor led dives, and let them start planning and leading on their own. Continuing to push supervision when it's not needed only results in dependent divers, who are less competant.

I think at first it's needed. A recently certified diver hasn't learned navigation, rescue skills, may still have problems here and there and need a helping hand... and supervision allows them to feel safer and progress with their skills. But they should be pushed to start diving independently, not stay all the time with a guide.

 

[dmoore19]

Well, my first boat dive was on a group trip, an instructor was there and answered my questions and showed me the ropes. I did part of it for my AOW certification. I did gain experience and confidence in what I had been taught. It was a good experience for me and I enjoyed it.

Some will. Most won't. That's what I'm trying to say; and that most divers who've been on a boat will know that this is knowledge you'll learn quickly by yourself. You've never taken it, yet you can easily dive from a boat. How'd you learn it?

The same way as I; practical experience.


I think the ones saying the shop screwed them are the exception to the rule. Diving is a small community, and those who are real ripoffs tend to not last.

 

[Doc Harry]

Judging from the way a lot of lot divers behave on a dive boat (spread their gear all over the place, block walkways with mounds of gear, take up all the storage space, etc). I would say that a lot of people NEED to take a boat diving course.

 

[T.C.]

Judging from the way a lot of lot divers behave on a dive boat (spread their gear all over the place, block walkways with mounds of gear, take up all the storage space, etc). I would say that a lot of people NEED to take a boat diving course.

What makes you think these divers would listen?

For the record; most divers don't show these bad habits. You must really spend alot of time watching and mentally criticizing other divers when you go out.

 

[TMHeimer]

I figured the "keep your gear by you and neat as possible" thing out on that 3rd post OW dive. Common sense and courtesy. Also figured out all by myself to put my gear in order of donning in the gear bag. Then I read about that in the Adventures in Diving manual (Boat Diver section). More rocket science.

 

[uncfnp]

If it's all just common sense and courtesy then apparently there are a LOT of divers without much of either!

 

[dmoore19]

I wouldn't say there are a lot, it does seem that there is always one.

 

[TMHeimer]

If it's all just common sense and courtesy then apparently there are a LOT of divers without much of either!

Actually I'm having trouble even recalling one.

 

[PfcAJ]

No, they don't.

That's just a two-fold effect of: "They changed something, it can't be as good anymore!" hysteria, and a few times you've seen bad divers- so you blame their classes. No OW diver is certified in two dives. Second, I'd like to see your "statistics". I call shenanigans on your statement that new divers are the most fatalities.

Second, if you really wanted to see better divers, get them away from the DM/instructor led dives, and let them start planning and leading on their own. Continuing to push supervision when it's not needed only results in dependent divers, who are less competant.

---------- Post added April 13th, 2014 at 01:46 PM ----------



Some will. Most won't. That's what I'm trying to say; and that most divers who've been on a boat will know that this is knowledge you'll learn quickly by yourself. You've never taken it, yet you can easily dive from a boat. How'd you learn it?

The same way as I; practical experience.


I think the ones saying the shop screwed them are the exception to the rule. Diving is a small community, and those who are real ripoffs tend to not last.

I just took a gander at the 2009 Annual Diving Report from DAN. Page 64 has a graph of # of years certified and %of deaths reported in 1yr.

The curve looks bimodal at first till you consider the total population, how many divers would fit into each category, and how many years each category spans.

In the "certified less than 1yr" and "1yr" categories the total is 30ish % divers died fell into those two groups. For the greater than 10yrs category it has 40%. That seems to suggest to me that newer divers are more likely to experience a fatal accident. <1 and 1yr is a very defined group compared to ALL divers certified for greater than 10yrs.

n=48 for that particular year.

Most fatal accidents were also pretty shallow and off boats. Naturally, most dives are probably really shallow and off boats, but it's at least relevant to the discussion here.

 

[T.C.]

In the "certified less than 1yr" and "1yr" category the total is 30ish divers died. For the greater than 10yrs category it has 40. That seems to suggest to me that newer divers are more likely to experience a fatal accident. <1 and 1yr is a very defined group compared to ALL divers certified for greater than 10yrs.

Most fatal accidents were also pretty shallow and off boats. Naturally, most dives are probably really shallow and off boats, but it's at least relevant to the discussion here.

I notice that you don't include a Without listing a population size, we can't make an accurate comparison, nor without cause of death.

And without knowledge of if there was a professional present, we can't judge the effectiveness of guided dives. For all we know, these were divers that were lead around like sheep, until the day that there was no shepard, and they couldn't plan or dive.

I still maintain that continuing to push supervisions after OW only makes dependent divers. It doesn't breed independence, because the divers just start to accept the "trust me, I'm a DiveMaster" line of BS.