Is it worth it?

[TMHeimer]

I would guess that not all, but the vast majority of brand new divers don't need the Boat Course. Shedding light on that in this forum makes sense to me.

 

[gcarter]

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[dmoore19]

I don't think anyone has said their value was anything but relative. Relative to the experience, comfort and confidence a student might get from it.

Not being a card collector I guess I wouldn't understand the need for a card, but I am certain the structured course is of value to some, especially brand new OW divers that this forum is dedicated to.

Maybe it is just the demographic of people who post on the board, but it certainly seems that the operators and shops in Florida have a more than their share of unscrupulous shops and operators. That is a real shame because a new diver could possibly learn something of value from the course. IDK for sure, I have never done a dive, boat or shore in Florida. For that matter, the only dives I have ever done with the exception of my certification dives, are boat dives.

Their value is relative, I made that clear. I would prefer that it is made clear that no diver will be denied a boat ride, night dive, drift dive or wreck dive because they don't have the appropriate card. This is why we get these questions, because the new divers believe they need them.

But there are the unscrupulous shops that continue to push these cards as necessary. One thing I would change is allowing instructors to invent their own specialties. If they find a gap in training, they should submit these courses for review and inclusion into the standard curriculum offered.

 

[Doc Harry]

Is it worth it?

Oh, yeah! It will give you the opportunity to learn more skills while under supervision. Great plan.

 

[T.C.]

Oh, yeah! It will give you the opportunity to learn more skills while under supervision. Great plan.

Do we really want to encourage more new divers to dive with supervision? They're certified; go forth and dive.

Encouraging supervision is how we end up with divers whose dives consist of "trust the DM".

I don't think anyone has said their value was anything but relative. Relative to the experience, comfort and confidence a student might get from it.

But until they take it, they have nothing to judge the value against. Any diver who's been on a boat will tell you the value will be low. That's what this forum is for; so we can let the new divers know that, no, you won't need your boat diver card to get onto the boat. Or a card to drift, dive at night or anything else. The only exception I can think to this is Nitrox, which is the only course I recommend for every diver.

Maybe it is just the demographic of people who post on the board, but it certainly seems that the operators and shops in Florida have a more than their share of unscrupulous shops and operators.

I think this is widespread. To be sure, the vast majority of LDS's are honest, good shops that deserve every dollar of income they make. But there is the exception to every rule, and it's not limited to one area.

 

[Doc Harry]

Do we really want to encourage more new divers to dive with supervision? They're certified; go forth and dive.

In case you haven't noticed, modern dive certification just trains divers well enough to be dangerous, not competent.

It's a side effect of the corporate goal to make dive instruction as cheap as possible to get as many customers as possible. There is absolutely no way a "certified" OW diver with two open water dives is competent to tackle the world alone. Look at accident statistics - most of the fatalities occur in the group of divers who are newly certified.

Continuing from OW straight in AOW (a poor term, I know) is great way for new divers to improve their skills under supervision - and to stay alive while gaining new experience.

Pinch me, just go for it!

 

[dmoore19]

That is a pretty brash statement. I disagree. Understand, I am not saying that every diver that steps on a boat will find value or need the course. I am just saying some will appreciate it and gain skills by participating.

It isn't easy to find mentors that are of known quality when you dive with a different group of people every time you go. An instructor might make that a bit easier. In theory you should be able to trust what an instructor has to say so that may be of value to the dreaded vacation diver(such as myself), trying to improve their skills and knowledge base.

It seems that there is always someone saying they were screwed by a shop or an operator. I have said before I guess I am lucky because where I live the shops and operators I have done business with have been quite positive experiences. I suppose I could be the exception to the rule, I doubt it. This depends heavily on the difference of different perceptions of value.

But until they take it, they have nothing to judge the value against. Any diver who's been on a boat will tell you the value will be low. That's what this forum is for; so we can let the new divers know that, no, you won't need your boat diver card to get onto the boat. Or a card to drift, dive at night or anything else. The only exception I can think to this is Nitrox, which is the only course I recommend for every diver.

I think this is widespread. To be sure, the vast majority of LDS's are honest, good shops that deserve every dollar of income they make. But there is the exception to every rule, and it's not limited to one area.

 

[TMHeimer]

DocHarry, I basically went straight to AOW as well and agree that (at least for me) it was a good thing. As I progressed and did Rescue I began to realize what you say about OW courses not being what they used to be, then read a zillion things about that on SB. I guess what some of us are saying is there are some specialties that (if taught well) can be very useful and maybe even a better idea than just diving. But there are quite a few others that just don't need to be taken.

 

[dmoore19]

........

 

[T.C.]

In case you haven't noticed, modern dive certification just trains divers well enough to be dangerous, not competent.It's a side effect of the corporate goal to make dive instruction as cheap as possible to get as many customers as possible. There is absolutely no way a "certified" OW diver with two open water dives is competent to tackle the world alone. Look at accident statistics - most of the fatalities occur in the group of divers who are newly certified.Continuing from OW straight in AOW (a poor term, I know) is great way for new divers to improve their skills under supervisor - and to stay alive while gaining new experience.Pinch me, just go for it!

No, they don't.

That's just a two-fold effect of: "They changed something, it can't be as good anymore!" hysteria, and a few times you've seen bad divers- so you blame their classes. No OW diver is certified in two dives. Second, I'd like to see your "statistics". I call shenanigans on your statement that new divers are the most fatalities.

Second, if you really wanted to see better divers, get them away from the DM/instructor led dives, and let them start planning and leading on their own. Continuing to push supervision when it's not needed only results in dependent divers, who are less competant.

---------- Post added April 13th, 2014 at 01:46 PM ----------

That is a pretty brash statement. I disagree. Understand, I am not saying that every diver that steps on a boat will find value or need the course. I am just saying some will appreciate it and gain skills by participating.

Some will. Most won't. That's what I'm trying to say; and that most divers who've been on a boat will know that this is knowledge you'll learn quickly by yourself. You've never taken it, yet you can easily dive from a boat. How'd you learn it?

The same way as I; practical experience.

It seems that there is always someone saying they were screwed by a shop or an operator.

I think the ones saying the shop screwed them are the exception to the rule. Diving is a small community, and those who are real ripoffs tend to not last.